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Episode 82 · 6 months ago

THE BATMAN (2022) with Editor William Hoy

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Parth and Trent talk The Batman (2022) with its editor, William Hoy. They also profess their love for the film.

We are tonight's entertainment. You can't handle the true the fire risals, pizza time, girl, Wizard Harry. So you know, you think that's where you're breathing. Proving I will have friends. I strew the suits. So Trent, so parth rottle me. That's rule of me. that. What have you been eating? I'll big black bat part. That's part. That's the Batman Week. It is. It's I don't know if this is a shock to the listeners, it's a little bit of a shock to us. It's this is a super recent development, but we'll just get at what we've been eating out of the way because we've got a pretty, pretty awesome interview. Time, timely, even on the weekend that it was released. HMM HMM. That's just an interesting coincidence. But so that you know right now, Mett, friend of the show, so Phil Lexis's College House. I know that because her Wifi was bad and it almost jeopardized one of the lost in interview. Yeah, shout out to friend off the show, Shane Madie. He gave me his room which has much better connection. But are our guest. William Hoy, the editor of the film, joked that it would be hard for you to sustain your relationship going forward, given that your spouse has bad internet connectivity, and I was like this is going to be a good interview. This guy can yeah, but to answer the question, Sophie and I made chocolate chip pancakes as like morning runch wow type to you. It's very like Norman Rockwell, of you, I know, and they were delicious. How about you, Trent? I just needed a comment on you. Watch me do it. I did my famous thing part. I've an even anything. You said, I go eat something so you can talk about it. So what was the word you said so I wouldn't be intellectually bankrupt on the show. Something like something about your integrity. Yeah, and so I just said, old, drink this glass of water, and you said that's not enough. Well, it's not what you what have you been drinking? If that's what it was, then that would have been fine, but this is craft services, damn it. Yeah, it's what have you eating? You, you are right. Well, should we talk about the movie of the week this week on our show? I think it's time. We should just get straight into it, because I think the listeners are excited. Give the people what they want. Yeah, yeah, I'd say William Hoy edited the Shit Out of this movie and let's talk about it with how I'm going to edit the shit into this intro. Welcome back to craft services, where we talk about the movies. Each week. We talked about a film and hopefully have a remember of that film to talk with us about their experience working on the picture. This week we have a big catch, folks, big catch, big fish, big movie. Yeah, Big Bat, a big blockbuster, the Big Black Bat. It's the Batman. Matt Reeves is movie. We were able to secure William Hoy, the editor. We secure him, all right, he we always say this, but this time. Sometimes, sometimes it's more hype purpose sometimes it's a less hyperbole but this is this is one of our better interviews, is it not? No, it was, like I said off are that it revitalized my lust for life in terms of, you know, breathing, are doing the pod, you know, the going from day to day life. William Hoy sparked me and, like the riddler, like the like, got the Gotham's of powder keg and riddlers, the match. Know. Yeah, so I guess I'm Gotham and William Hoy is the riddler in the scenario part we were just are you thinking?...

Burn everything, Burns Bart probably were just off are on the Secret Batman website. If you want to talk about that, well, why don't we? Oh wait, was that off air that he told us about? That that was off air. Why don't we play the interview and then talk about that at the end? But but just just to tease some goodies. Should everyone guess? Should everyone have seen the Batman? Isn't there a spoiler? Around like the twenty minute mark or something? There's like a mild spoiler warning. We don't really give any if you haven't seen the movie, I think you can rest easy. All we do is we kind of mention an action sequence that is featured pretty prominently in trailers. I think if you haven't seen the movie you could still listen to this. Yeah, I think so too. There's really no plot points, there's no scenes, there's just one action sequence again that's been prominently displayed, and even that not much about it, just the process of making it. But intentionally we avoided key key points, spoilers even. Yeah, but if you're if you're if you want to go in completely blind as a bat, if you will go go see it at your nearest theater, hopefully on a big old screen part and I saw on Imax partssaw for a second time last night. It was dope. Yeah, notes, just to tease out some stuff he talks about. He talks about why carmine fell cons name is pronounced that way. He talks about how the movie changed over the course of Covid. He talks about how he works with Michael Giacchino, the the composer, and with Matt Ree's, the director. There's there's a lot of stuff, I think if you're a fan. Yeah, he edited the whole movie. Well, he's what he co he co edited it. He talks about that too. Yes, and it was super cool. You should listen. Seems like you're already here. Seems like you're well under way. It's a listening, so we're want to like minute seven of recording. I've been trow and I think we should just saying, madam, listen. So let's just let the listening begin. Just keep the keep those ears open. All right, everybody. Q The interview. Please enjoy. Hello, everybody, and welcome to our interview with William Hoy. He's the editor that's worked on such films as dances with wolves, watchman and war for the plan of the Apes. He's also edited Matt Reeves the Batman, which opens this weekend. Thank you so much for being with us today. Thank you for having me. Happy to be here. So just to start off, talk about how you got involved with filmmaking and more specifically, with film editing. I Guess Goes Back to Robert Altman days, is where we started. When I say we, my sister start out. I was started out as an actress and she was in a movie that shot in Vancouver, where I'm from. The movie was McCabe, Mrs Miller, and so my sister had a role in that and then followed Robert Altman, or was invited by Robert Altman to come down to Los Angeles and continue her career. And in those days Robert Altman operated kind of like a repertoire company that if you weren't acting, then you were doing research and if you weren't doing research, if it was after a production, then maybe you were doing post production. So and I was going to film school, Whatever Film School we had in Vancouver at the time, just trying to learn something about filmmaking and there wasn't any films being shot in Vancouver in those days. I mean that right now it's completely different scene that it is, you know, in the day that when I left Vancouver. So so there was nothing going on up there. So my sister said, once you come down here and you know if you want to continue education or if you want just see what's going on down here,...

...because this is where they make film if you want to get in film. So Robert Altman had a company called Lionsgate, not to be mistaken with the lionsgate that exists now, but he had a company. His company took movies from the very beginning, from research development all the way to post production. So you know, there was a crew for all of that. So I happen to walk in on a movie called three women and the editors they say I'd go there for launch and they they would see me all the time and at some point the head of post production there said would you like to come and work for us and go out? Yeah, so that's how I got into editorial. You know, I I think there was a there's a lot of people that say I want to be director or want to be a producer. I want to be a writer because that's where all the creative inputs happening, but I quickly realize that as an editor there's a lot of creative input. So I started there as an as as an apprentice and assistant, and it's lucky enough to move up continue being an editor. And that's kind of how my career transpired. And can you explain how you became involved with Matt Reeves, because before the Batman you worked on some of the planet of the apes movies? Yes, that's right now. I don't know if it went back even further than that. No, no, I met Matt on dawn of the planet of the Apes. So you know, a lot of times for people who work in the film industry is this kind of synergy, I guess is the word, that things come together. You know, I have worked that Fox on a Fox twenty century Fox as it was. I work there on on a a few pictures, so the people there knew me. Also, the producer of dawn of the planet EPS Dylan Clark. He knew me from Zack Snyder movie dawn of the dead, because the studio universal at the time asked me to come in to help out on that picture because the picture wasn't going very well at that point. One of the shoot he had seen it and it wasn't going very well. So so I knew Dylan from that. So through all that, through Fox and and Dylan got me the interview with with Matt Reeves because he was looking for an editor who had visual effects background, and so so I went in and met Matt and the that's kind of how our relationship started. So to sort of expand on your relationship, what's your what's your guys as process like? What you know? It certainly evolved from the very first day that we met. Obviously we start working together because Matt's a very he's a very meticulous director, and I guess you could say that for a lot of directors, but he wants to go through the movie step by step and that's how he goes through it. So in working with him then you have to kind of establish a certain trust that what you're putting together, that you've actually gone through the dailies and look for the best performance and not only that, that the scene has form and structure to it that kind of tells the story that that he wants to so it's is that trust that you have to build with any director. So you know that takes a while because you know there's so many ways you can put together a scene, a movie and the so that's all left to interpretation or it's left to your director is trying to direct it put it in a certain direction.

So I believe that our working relationship didn't really become a solid working relationship until we had to solve a problem within the first movie which was thought on the plan of the apes, and that was the the attack on the human outposts, because that that seemed, wasn't that scene wasn't working. And so, with knowing some visual effects background, having some visual effets background and knowing that we can manufacture different things, is where where he and I reimagine that scene and it is it stands the way that we reimagine it now. But it took he and I sitting in a room and just working that out. So is basically was rewritten and reconceived, and so then he realized that we're kind of on the same page with a lot of things. So that's kind of trust I believe you have to build with a director so that you know, on war was easier. So that I felt more free to put scenes together and then on this one even further than that. So and now it's evolved into a full bow and friendship, because you know you can't help but when you work together that many hours that you know, you get to know as family. You get to know his ups and downs during the day and mine and all that kind of stuff. So because we're we're in a cutting room for hours and hours at a time. So so it's, you know, it's now it's trust and friendships. So it's it. It was a pleasure to work on this one for sure, this one being the Batman, this one Batman. So you just wanted to know, like how did you when did you know that this was this is your next movie, your next project? You know, when we were finishing war for the plan of the apes and we still had months to go on it, and I knew that he was taking some interviews. I wasn't. We're just too busy to talk about what was going on, but he was. He was taken interviews with Warner brothers and they wanted him to do the Batman and they had a script. I think you might know that the Ben Affleck script be Netfleck was involved at that point. You know, he read the script and and it's documented in interviews from him and he also told me that he's a look at. I know. You know I read the script and that's one way to go. And but this just is it's not something that I can do. I have to do it my way. I need to. It's not something that I can put my heart and soul into because it's not something that I would do. And and so the studio says, so, what would you do? So he pitched them this story, he pitched them this idea and the study goes, okay, do that. So and then he had to write it. So so at the end of war he knew that I had been approached to do other projects, and quite long term project that would kick me up out of our my schedule with him, and he said that, Oh, don't do that, come and do the Batman with me, because you know I want to do the Batman. And I went okay, well, that's a Batman I want to see. So yes, I'll make myself available for that. So that's that's how that's how I end up on the Batman, because you make yourself available for the Batman and how are actually sounds kind of funny, like, no matter what's going on, make yourself about. Yes, right, right. So how ear Leone, like did you start getting footage? And like worry, I would imagine you were under lock and key this whole time. Well, Matt started preproduction sometime in two thousand and nineteen. I would say it was like September. He had left for London. So He's in London and I usually start a project about I like to...

...get in there at least a week before production begins, before they start shooting, so I can set up the cutting room, make sure the pipeline for dailies and everything. It's so that from the first day that they start shooting I'm seeing dailies and everything is running smoothly. So I actually left for London. I think it was like January, Nineteen of two thousand and twenty. So then you know I'm I'm there in London and you shooting. We get about a quarter of the movie shot and then covid happens and they shut down the production. So then I fly home march seventeen. So flew home not knowing if the production was going to continue, because you probably remember in those early days of Covid, nobody knew what's going on. I mean, you know, you can look out in street and people be dropping dead. You didn't know, you just nobody knew. I think it's it's a little in our review mirror now, but you know, so what came home and I, like a lot of people, just set and did a lot of binge watching TV's. We can read a lot of books, by the way, so I don't have an opportunity to do that very often. But at some point, obviously I'm communicating with Matt all the way through this and and he's doing he's continuing to work on on Previawz and he's continue to work on certain scenes and actually covid actually gave him an opportunity to put more time in preproduction of the batmobile chase, because that was a little lacking in prep because once what's the movie starts rolling, there's so many things going on, is go yeah, will come, we'll take care of that later. It's never going to happen. So so the break in between gave him an opportunity to revisualize is that whole that whole batmobile chase. So that that was one of the pluses that came out of Covid, if you can think any plus came out of covid. So, but then we didn't start we didn't start up again. So what happened was we're going to we get the we get the notice that they're going to start shooting again sometime late August. So that's when they moved these abs into my house and the other Editors House and my assistant who's here in La and plus we're continuing to keep the UK assistance and they're redoing. They're doing a daily so I think a year or two ago, without Covid I don't think the studios would have ever allowed us to work from home remotely on a picture of this size with such important intellectual property that you know that piracy is is crazy. I mean, so I want to be the guy that leaked the Batman? Absolutely not. You. You don't. You don't want any image to leak out. So it's kind of amazing that nothing, that there wasn't a breach, like, given all the breaches in like the new spider man per se. Right, this was air tight. Right. So, I mean I you know, it's because it's our crew, it's we take. We take every precaution. You know, when things go out, there's a certain protocol that you have to go through. But you know, they put in a firewall here in my house and you know and and it and the dailies were shipped. So I believe everything was encrypted. So they it wasn't that they didn't take precautions. We took every precaution. And but you know, it allowed us to work from home and which I've fought for years. I just thought, I don't want to get up and walk to the other room and start cutting. That just sounds like I dragged...

...to me. But wasn't so bad. I actually I have dinner with my wife at about thirty and go back to work, whereas if I'm at work, there's no chance of that. You know, our hours are insane sometimes, you know. So so you just like dinner. Forget about that. You know, we'll get home and whatever, eleven midnight, you know, after working full day. So, but so. So then we start we started up again in August working here, and they start shooting and as soon as they start shooting, or but Patterson got covid, so we had to shut down again. So we shut down and the meantime. Now we now are other systems are up. So we kept on going and and then finally we move back to Warner brothers in February of two thousand and twenty one. And so we set up the cutting rooms there and they had very strict covid protocols. You couldn't have more than two people in the room. They had to be wearing a mask. The building we moved into is one of their big editory but me there was nobody in there. Was Really Spooky, really weird. Not that there was nobody on a lot, because all the people in the office, all the executives, they were in Hawaii or somewhere out on the whether, but they were, you know, there was nobody on the lot. So it was it was just a strange time. But we set up our rooms and we're all in our separate rooms and we set up Matt, our directors room, separately and set up as monitors so that he could see exactly what I'm seeing in my room. So and so that all worked out. So when when Matt was done shooting, he came in, we showed them the picture and so that's kind of the timeline of of what happened and how we started ended up in the cunning rooms. You mentioned that there was another editor, I believe is Tyler Nelson or Nelson. Yes, so how was work diviaed up, where you both working on scenes, where you just given different scenes? Yeah, well, when Dayli's would come in, you know, I would working on one scene and and then if I'm occupied and he would take another scene. So in some cases we kind of overlapped, you know, and so but we, you know, I put the movie together and you know, we had talked about the fact that everything has to kind of come through my system because I actually mix the music and the sound effects and all those different things just for any kind of screening. And so I did that for for Matt for for his screening, because we have the tools and you know, in the day of film you don't have multi tracks of sound effects and multi tracks of music that overlapping and it's it's just very difficult thing to do. So everything has to come through my machine. So then I mix it and then we showed it to Matt. So, but any scenes that he's cut, if it's not including in this particular version, you know, I said, you know, Tyler should show it to Matt. There's ideas in there that he likes and I do the same thing with any scene that I've cut that snot in there. So we did overlap. But ultimately what happens is once we start working with Matt, Matt comes in and he's, like I said, he's very meticous. He's going to go through from point ABC down the line. He's going to go through all the dailies and make sure that he's got what he set out to get in his performances, with the with the actors and then with the scenes that need visual facts. We talked about that. So we go through the movie step by step. It's it's a process for sure. So, since you've spent more time with this movie than, say, most of the people on Earth in the edit, was there any scene in particular that was particularly like difficult or satisfying to get right or that, like the payoff was really nice? Well, I mean, there's there's a few things. I mean I say the make a put of my spoiler warning for yes, okay. Well, let's say the difficult scenes. We listen. Pick one is the bad...

...and mobile chase, because they try to previous some of that. They story board at some of that. But, like I said, it was one of the things that was re envisioned during covid. So that was shot over many days, over a long period. So we had little bits and pieces coming in at the time. There was it wasn't like always shot for three weeks and here's the batmobile chase. Put it together. So we would get a closeup of Batman, we get a close up a penguin, we get like one day we'd get the the batmobile coming around the corner with a tires and the water splashing in our face. And only that. There's certain they're certain shots, I mean they're certainly there's the shots in there that are all CG, but there's there's shots in there that are very subtle visual effects to so you know, all that has to be put together. So from the previous until ultimately what it ended up was very, very different, and that's because of what they went out and shot and so what you ended up with you use to put together and and then after that fact, if it's lacking in any way anywhere, than we use the resource of visual effects to help us out. So that's that's one of the scenes that and I'll tell you the other part of the difficulty. The difficult part of it was all those monitors. Oh my God, the you know when you get first Gett into the batcave and you see all those monitors. Well, they didn't exist in the shoot. So they shot some tempt version of that inside the monitors so that there would be some light playing on our actors faces. But all that had to be cut in after the fact and so that had to play against our our characters bruce, Wayne and Alfred. In that scene. We have we have news footage playing in the background. We have that what looks like a like the it's the contact lens point of view. So we have that playing in the other monitors. So we have all that plane and that's true for anything and any of those ones that have have monitors in it. So that that was a that was a big deal. So you're kind of speaking on a lot of the vfx shots and I was kind of wondering with the movie like this, and I guess maybe two more of an extent the plane of the apes movies, when visual effects are such a big component of what you're editing, what's the kind of like logistical process for that? Like are you just editing the raw footage that they send you first and then sending that out to the vfx houses, or is there like a process that we don't know about? That's basically it's. So I would say that when you doing a visual x picture, the visual fex houses have budget at a certain time, a certain amount of money, so that there are what we call keystone shots, which is a what does Gotham look like with all those signs in the square, and what's that look like? So you know, when we get the shot of the what we call the drifter writing his motorcycle back, we pick that shot. It's a single shot. We ship that off the divisual fext house visual Effects Department and they then begin to work on that shot because it's probably going to exist in that form, whether it's slightly shorter. So we try to make it a little longer than usual than what we think. So, but we you never know if there might be something interesting that the visual Effects Department adds in there. But so that's kind of where you start to start, with shots that you pretty sure going to be in the picture and then the other piece to say, let's say, the batmobile chase there's certain parts of that that's you know, that's that's going to be there. That shot's going to be there too in some form of fashion. Or...

...there's their shots in there that we need to work on this quick because we're talking about concept here. When this truck turns on its side and hits the overpass, what is that exactly going to look like? And how does that actually happen? Because they actually shot practical they actually shot a version of a semi tilting to the side, but it it just never looked right and plus you're not going to drive that into an overpass. So all of that, how do you envision that? So so we had to put that together and in our mind, just think how long that's going to take. And that's how you proceed. And you pass that off to the the visual fext house and they begin to work on it and and once we get different versions, than we begin to modify it again and again. So that's that's basically how visual effects happens. I mean, as far as some of the the monitors are concerned, I mean obviously that's mostly that's based on what are characters are doing within the context of the scene and what's playing in the monitors. So you know that that becomes a little bit more of a background, a subliminal thing that's playing against what Bruce Wayne is seeing, what's he's doing, and then, after he leaves, what Alfred thinks about what just happened and what Bruce Wayne, what Batman saw that night. So so those that are kind of things where that helps further the story. But it's not. It doesn't dictate the actual length or pace of it. It's more about how how our characters, the main characters are, are interacting with those particular monitors. So, with an original score as this film has, how are they? How are the editors and that compose there, Michael Guy ch you know, like how are you guys collaborating to figure out what goes where and why and how? Yeah, we had a real bonus on this and it's so rare. Ma Coul Giacchino wrote a suite for a Batman, so that Batman theme, and he had sent it to to Matt Reeves and he had he shared it with me as amazing piece. But it's great. He's but he said what he's going to do before we even started principal photography. Michael Giacchino went into Abbey Road and recorded for a whole day. So he recorded the Bruce Wayne theme, he recorded the Batman theme, he recorded the Selina Kyle seene theme. So he there was certain themes that he recorded already. So we didn't have to we, being myself or the music editor, didn't have to go and scramble and try to find something that could stand in for the Batman theme. Now, how you going to do that without? That's impossible, without, without calling upon so did you not use tent music? Well, what happened was after we did, but not not in the same way we would have if we didn't have all these particular themes, because we had we had, when I say we have the Bruce Wayne theme, we had three four different versions of it. The Batman theme, we had like three different versions of it. And so but they not only that, they gave it to me broken down into different elements that we had the synth track with harps, you know, we had the horns, we had the percussion, so we had all I had all that separated so that if I went into a scene and I wanted a piece of music, I could just play the synth track or just play the harp and in a lot of cases that's the indication that was put in there for the tempt and ultimately it was a template for the final score. We have a great music editor, Paul Apergren, who's worked...

...on the eight movies too. So he came on once we went back to the studio sometime around that time. So at that point he then took these Michael Giacchino's music and then he would craft it so that there's this there's other temp music and you don't really know that is temp music because he he gets all the different breakdown of all these different temp music from all these different movies too. So so he's he's able to manufacture different score for us in different places. So that's so it's a real luxury to have that, to have your your theme. I've never actually had that actually on down. He did write a whole suite but we could only use so much of it. Wasn't broken down and recorded quite like the themes for bruce, Wayne, Batman and Seley in this movie. So that that was a real luxury. This is a movie with kind of a complex plot where there sequences or scenes that you found changed or repaired down very significantly from script to screen or just for to simplify so the audience. You know there there's there were a few and I I I think that possibly all the scenes were trim in some way with a line here or there that felt like maybe it was repetitious or but the script as it was laid out, kind of goes scene to scene to scene because as a detective story, so you couldn't really kind of exercise right big chunks of it. But you know so. But there were scenes that were deleted. I mean there's a scene where after Batman gets his second card from the riddler, he goes and sees somebody else I mentioned at the moment and to say look, this is what's going on. What's your thoughts? The idea is that here's Batman and he goes instead of taking his own initiative, he goes and see somebody else for information. So in losing that scene he goes straight from getting the getting the card from the riddler to taking action, which he then has Selina go into the club because that's where he can find information. So He's taken initiative and that works well. So it's it's those kind of things that are trimmed down. I think the the other areas possibly is when Batman's racing back to he knows that something's about to happen at the Wayne Tower and Alfred is looking at yes, right, he's looking at this, this letter that's addressed to Bruce Wayne. So in that there was abbreviation after the fact the explosion of him in the in the hospital there, and also with the detective. But there's it all in trimming that up. It all plays as as a piece instead of these separate scenes that you go from ABCD. So I think, I think that had that gave it a little momentum through there, that they played all as of a piece, because it's it's were what Batman it's a very subjective set up for for our character and we're seeing it through his eyes. So I'm sure some of these cuts were inspired by some of the like the test screenings and how, like after the test grinnings, does the opinions of the general public get back to you are to...

...this write down on a little pieces of paper and then someone sums it up and then sends you in an email about what you have to change. That's that's roughly it. You know, so, but the the this particular movie, more so than other ones, is that it it was more of a point. What what the audience was responding to a lot of times was, because there's so many characters in it, is the point of clarification of the characters. So that's kind of what we took away from Oh, you know, there, if this isn't clear, an example is originally the fell cone. His it's like Genovese or Genovese. You could pronounce it either way. And so for the course of shooting the movie his name was fell coney. Originally, I almost correct I almost corrected you and said you mean carmine fell coney. Right, so it's carmine fell coney. But we also had Moronei. So we got how cony and Maronei. So you go. Well, and and so we screened it and I think it was one of Matt's writer friends because I I don't know. I because Maroney never really appears on screen. I mean he's in the back there in a news clip, but you never get a sense of WHO's Moroni. I mean at the moment, even now, he's kind of like Moroni. WHO's he? Oh, he's the other guy. So when you have Maroney and Fel Cony, then you go, Oh, I have no idea what the hell is going on here. So we actually there's an example where we had the visual effects change the lips on them so that you would because we got actually cut the fell cone knee. We could cut the knee off or sometimes, if we had to, we would get atr from but for the most part we're pretty successful in cutting off the knee off the fell cone. But it was a matter of losing that last little bit of movement on the lips and visual effet department helped us out with that. So that was pretty amazing. So so it became fell cone and Maronei. So that's that's the point of clarification. So I think showing it to an audience, we get that song, so that that you know, you know. Some of the other points was, I guess, a Kenzie. So do we know who Kenzie is? So you know, we manufactured a little scene that tells us more of who he is. So when Celina is going to the club downstairs that you know Batman, actually see some and he reminds us that that's a guy that he threw the bat at. I broke his nose, that guy. So so we had to end and we added a line with for Selena when she's when she comes and sees Batman on on the top of the building with the bat signals and you know, so she again realized that that Dick Bag kenzie right, right. So so those are kind of things that that help with the clarification of the characters. So you kind of brought up the sound apartment and I was wondering, like how in conjunction with them are you working, because it's such a sound heavy movie. Yeah, and like sound design is so important to it, which is what kind of work do you do with them? Well, you know, when we start the movie or kind of on our own, because it's it's difficult to carry a sound apartment through the entire production. So you know, with our sound Effects Library we're trying to just tempt in some things. I know the the Batmobile was impossible to do because it's such a distinctive thing, but we tried just to give us an ideas just so that when show the picture of the Mat that we had something there, because you know, those are the kind of scenes where there's no sound at all. You know they will add of curiosity. What did you use? Well, our...

...sound designer, will files, you know, he what we we originally use something like a charger, because that's kind of the bodies based on something like that. So, you know, like a big hunken beaid engine. So that's what we started with. But will files, the sound designer, he went even further and he recorded different things and I can't remember all the engines and different things, but it's a combination of things, you know. So so. So when we start we're just all kind of on our own, but on a production the size, were fortunate enough to be able to bring them on just before the end of principal photography because I said Look, before Matt sees this, we're going to need some sound. So I work in one and I can do that because the sound fix department they give me the sound in one. So you know you're talking about sound design. I had conversations with them. What does Gotham sound like? Because we're on the top of the building. I could just put in like traffic by and stuff like that, but what does that that's that's doesn't give you a sense of what Gotham is. And it's always raining. So what does that happen. All right, right, so, but what that sound like? It's a light rain, it's a heavy rain, it's a rain on the rooftop, it's a rain on on on the train platform. Say, so there's all this sound design that has to happen. So we're talking. I'm talking to the sound department. I give them scenes as soon as I can so that they get can begin to temp in some of this sound for me, and they give it back to me in one well, I have I have model tracks, I have stereo tracks by so I have the five one tracks from them and so then in the Abbot then I mix it all down with the music and also, so that's that's kind of a what were our conversations with the sound designers our concerned? So it's it's will files and Dug Murray, who worked on the eight movies with those two. So so I work with them before and so you know, there's a there's a certain rapport that we have and that's great. So in another element that I think was made through the sound and that I wasn't fully expecting is I was genuinely scared twice during this movie through through a little jump scares. Yeah, and I would be curious to know if you can guess with the two times are candle. If you cannel, just tell you. But I'm sure you've spent a lot of time with this movie. I I would think. I would think one is an orphanage, when guy jumps out your one for toil, and I would think it's probably in the beginning when when when the mayor walks off and when he says side and the river there behind him. That's right, sir. You're a hundredth correct. I was right next to Trent what that happened, and he jumps like a little child and like beautiful. I'm like wonderful. I'm a relatively sturdy guy and I guess I wasn't going in a Batman particularly ready to be jump scared, but it was a really it was really pleasant. It was it was nice to be caught off guard like that. There's there's a couple interesting things about those, those two things, and so it's like the orphanage, for example. You know, so what and I mixed the picture. And so now we're on preview day and where I do what's called to run through. So we go through there and we want to make sure that we run the picture. I watch the entire picture in the morning to make sure that everything is right, you know, if things did saying and picture looks the way supposed to look. So I come back and met didn't watch the movie and he says, so what you think I got? You know, this one area where I just it just needs something else. It...

...just it's the orphanage when the guy comes out. It wasn't scary, and so what we did was we have that Stinger. That, yeah, that thing, and so it was after that I just added that one sound effect, for it was acting music. It was a music hit. I just added that and from then on that was in, because it's it's a jump scare and you needed that just just to hit it really hard. I'm so I'm so glad that you'd something to do with that, because I was about to mention that exact thing. Whereas in jump scares, when you watch like the conjuring or whatever, but this time there's like a music track and droning and you can feel it about to like come. It come like this and you know that the jump is gonna it's going to correspond to that. But Yours, the music. You came after and so while I was like this, then a wave of sound came over me. You know, that's that's funny. You know, the other thing, too, was we're talking about out the mayor and when he walks away, and so so there I put the sting of the music. As you know, it's it's kind of like a percussion hit, and when he walks away, and the actually the music supervisor was the one that that brought it up. He goes. You know, I think, I think you're your music hit on the reveal the ridler's earliergo what are you talking about? It happens right as he walks away, but if you revisit that, when you go and see it again, you notice that it happens later. You walk away, you discover it. They go, Oh my God, and then the music hits right, because if it is, it makes your brain a second. That's right. That's right, because I had as soon as you could see him, where I could see him, because you're seeing it frame by frame, right, exactly. You you have to allow the audience to absorb. What the what the Hell? You know. So that's the point. So so that you know that was two different versions of a hit. That I'm glad it worked for you, Trent. I'm ready to move into some non the Batman related questions, if that's okay with you. Okay. So you've worked with another director that has made his own version of Batman, Zack Snyder. HMM, you've worked on a few films with him. Mentioned on the dead, you work on three hundred and watchman, and we're just wondering what he's like, because he's a visionary in his own right. Yeah, I love that. I mean he's he's very collaborative, he's he's quite different in the cutting room than mad is. He's he, you know, he he'll come in, he'll he'll see something and he'll give us thoughts and I'll dress him in that sense. But he's very, very visual. I you know, when I first met him on on dawn of the dead and he this, that was his first feature. And so and I'm looking at, you know, these beautiful shots of cigarettes dropping on the floor and sparks flying up in the air, but I'm thinking, yeah, but it's too long. But that's the glimpses of what he is visually. And so, you know, I believe that I was brought in just to make sure that those things are in there, but that the narrative is there and all the scares and all the although humor that was in there was in there too. And then when three hundred was was in the wind, I said I I have to do that because it's first of all, I don't know if you guys grew up on the battle of them Appoli, but you know it's one of those things in books and history. Yeah, right, it's took me three hundred holding off tens of thousands of the enemy at the gates. You know, it's like it's amazing story, you know. So I said, I have to do that, I have to you know, somewhere I got to get in there and I think...

...he was going to work with the other editor again and I somehow got in there and and kind of forneck on my way into working with him. And and you could see that that was totally visual because we had like King Leon iight is sitting on a rock with a half a spear, and this in this stage where you go, is this ceiling high enough? We're going to see. But he could see it. He could see all that, because I said's not so sure about this, but he could see it and the whole lighting of it, the whole idea of because he comes from commercials and music videos, mostly commercials, and so that whole ramping of action that you know he's done gatory commercials and if you revisit those early ones, that's exactly what it was doing, so that he would shoot with high speed cameras and then they would wrap them down to action. So so on three hundred that's kind of what happened. And and and every shot that he shot that was high speed that needed to be ramped in some way. I mean, there are so many ways to go and I thought, Oh my God, if he if we don't see eye to eye on this ramping, I'm each shot is like it's like editing a scene. You could go so many different ways. And if he doesn't, if I ramped this and he doesn't see the same way I do, is where the impact moment is and where we need to slow it down, then this is going to take a long time. But as it as it is, he's so collaborative and that most of it like hey, this is great and or let's make an adjustment here and there. But so he's he's quite different than say, Matt Reeves and in that sense of working, for sure. Did you edit that? This is Sparta. That was that? Oh Yeah, Oh yeah, it was a crazy to see that like blow up the way it did. Oh Yeah, you're talking about when he kicks him into the well. Yeah, yes, you know, it's see, that's it's interesting because, you know what, I had ramped that scene so that he kicks him and he as he's falling. There's a certain speed to it, you know. So in the avid we have this time war and so and, like I said, you could do it so many different ways, but I had it in a certain way that you just caught a glimpse of him when he's falling. So, but when I gave it to the visual effects people and they gave it back to us, go on, why? Why? No, no, no, because they had ramped it a different way. No, you have to fall on this frame. I don't I don't care what you have to do, but there's certain frames you have to have because it's it's like, I liken it to what you would see in a in a graphic novel. That's the frame, right. So if you're if he's falling, that's the frame you would have in like the square of the graphic novel. So but yeah, that for sure, that was rapped and that's how we exists in the movie, which your friend are you dying to ask? Yeah, so, speaking of all tour directors that you work with, we alluded to earlier that the Batman takes place in sn city and you were the assistant or an additional editor on David winter seven is is sure I was. I was. I was a second editor on that, Richard Francis Bruce, who is cutting the movie, and he was cutting on the film, by the way. So at that point I was working on an avid already. And so they, they, they being Richard and they fincher, wanted me to come in and put certain scenes together on the add because it's so much easier to visualize or to get a result and then and then pass it off to the visual Effects House. And you know, one of them is when Margan Freeman's in the library and...

...there's a whole series of dissolved so so that's sane right. So that's that's one of the things that that if you were to do it on film, you would have to say, okay, I'm going to start dissolved here. I'm going to go out here and you pass it off to the lab and it comes back and go well, that doesn't look right and you have to do it again. But in the avid you can just just you do it and then you can see it and we can all agree that's what it should be. And then you would take the counts off, the numbers off the of the picture and send it off to the lab. So so that that was my capacity. I you know, I worked on that. Was Lucky enough to be a part of that. And now I've say Richard Frances Bruce to serve us all the credit for that, because I came in as as as a second editor and and I made some contribution. But I would say Richard Francis boosy. He's the man on that. I've listened to his commentary track on the seven DVD. Richard Francis Bruce. Yes, right, yes, yeah, Nice. Yeah, and you know it's like speaking about seven is, you know, when they hadn't shut the end scene yet and so so after at the end of principal photography. So so. And I believe the studio and the producers are getting a little they were they were not sure that that's how they want that movie to end. And so they were getting cold feet and fincher, to his credit, said look, if you want to fuck this movie up, you can do it yourself. I'm not doing it. So so he got what he wanted and he's starting. Brad Pitt and Morgan Freeman threatened to walk off. Yeah, He David fincher famously said, if this movie is nothing else, I want like fifty years from now, someone to say, Oh, they won't be able to remember the name and they'll say the head in the box movie. That's what the movie is. That's right, but I mean famously. Um, there was the epilog was added after the test screening of Seven. They like brought up the whites prematurely, like right after the cut to black. Is originally I mean spoilers for seven. Brad Pitt shoots a certain someone and then it cuts to black and then people panicked and then they added the Morgan Freemen epilog. Yeah, yeah, so you know more about it than I do. He worked on it. Trent. Should I ask is a time? Wait time for the BIG COHUNA? Final question? I think it's time. So try not to stay too frightened, but the big COHUNA. Final question is just what's the last great, not good, great movie you watched? For the purposes of our conversation, we're going to exclude the Batman, which is for everyone listening. It's a great movie, a great movie, not good, great, wow. Okay, and it could be a rewatch or new release. It doesn't have to be new. I haven't seen what this season. Anyways, I can't say they're great moves. That's a good movies. But I'm going to go see the rerelease of the Godfather. How's that? Yeah, I said that's it. Yeah, yeah, it's coming. I think it's going to be playing at the Academy Museum on a seventh theie. So I got to see I mean, honestly, it's it's one of my favorite movies and and we only aspired to be anything close to that. I haven't been to the Academy Museum yet, have you? I know it just opened recently. I have. Is it awesome? It's pretty awesome, you know, because I'm a member of it and support it. I mean, I think for film fans it's it's awesome. I mean they they have a floor dedicated to different filmmakers and iconic filmmakers and iconic people. You know that they have a...

...little section with Bruce Lee, that section with a black filmmaker who can't remember his name right now but very earlier on in I could see was like the s at the S. So, you know. So they pick tribute to and and you know, when they play these clips to you can't help but be inspired again. You know, you you look at these movies that, for me, inspired me all through my entire career and I'm looking at it and really it's like I get choked up. You know, it's like when they play the theme from the Blade Running, I just, Oh God, Oh my God. You know, it's like, you know, the final scene where with got horor dies, like the only lines that I've ever tried to remember, trying to memorize tears. Oh, exactly, oh my God. So it's you know that that's the part of the Academy Museum. I think for any film lover are going to go there and go why I remember that, but it's it's captures so so many different directors, so many different aspects of filmmaking, and so it's inspiring and even from my standpoint, you know, so that I go back to work and I'm inspired. You know, I try to make movies that are anywhere close to those particular movies that I've talked about. Yeah, I'm trying to I'm trying to avoid your question. We'll take the God father. That's a fair they changing it in the release? Is there like thirty seconds of new footage or something? No, from what I understand, they're going in and they what COPLA did was he he's restoring it to its its original release glory as far as the look of it and the sound. So he's he's gone back in there and so hopefully the blacks are totally black and it's punchy where it needs to be. I don't think punches the way to describe the Godfather, but you know, like there's some reds in there that you want to poke through the blacks and things like that. So I would imagine that's what he was after. But I read a little bit about it. I don't think he's added anything because he says there's those versions are out there already, the different versions of the Godfather. You know, the whole he had won was his ticks of chronologically and different things like that so so I don't think that was his intention. I think this is just to restore to what it was when on the day of release. Is what I is what I heard. Awesome, Trent. You want to wrap us up? Sure. Thanks again to William Hoy what a wonderful interview. Is worked on such films as dances with wolves, watchman, war for the plan of the Apes, and he's also just edited Matt Reeves the Batman, which opens this weekend and you should go see it at your local theater. Thanks for being here. Really appreciate it your time. Thank you, Trent, thank you, parth, and thank you guys for being fans and thank you for getting out there and going to see the movie. Appreciate it absolutely. It's our pleasure see the Batman again. Okay, seeing this movie three times and the yeah, all right, I love it. All Right, a part anybody? We host this podcast together? No, it's what I've heard. That interview is pretty cool, though. I thought it was pretty fucking awesome. How about you? I enjoyed myself. We asked, he answered. Need I say more? Yeah, should we talk about the URL? Yeah, this was something of a recent discovery. I guess we should go back to when we saw the movie in theaters and I'd say about five minutes after the credits, five seconds after the credits started rolling,...

I leaned over to you and I said, is there a post credit scene? And you said no, and so we well, I wasn't wrong, I wasn't good. There is not rose credits in our but we walked out of the theater very confidently and we like looked back at the full jampacked theater and we were like, look at these idiots. And then what happened? Then we interviewed William Hoy. We finished our interview and then we were talking off screen and he said again, this is not really a spoiler, but that's a it's just a suggestion to stick around at the very end of the movie. There is a website that takes you to a scene that I believe was deleted. It apparently if you solve some encrypted some encrypted riddles, perhaps from the riddler, that he left for you to decipher. But parth and I were just looking at them and it's not. Yesi it's not like a hundred percent working for us, but we're also known to be dumb. Like go if I think front of the show. Jackson Clark were here, he would say that this is a simple substitution code and I'm sure that there were like clues around. Was We aren't detectives or the world's greatest detective. If Batman were here at me, yeah, only we had ROB Pattinson over here. I made a comment as we left the theater that Batman solved the riddles incredibly fast. Guess, but eat it, he's he's the world is detective. But yeah, this is it. This was thank you so much to William Hoy. Thank you to his agent. Yeah, I sent the initial email to William Hoy's agent. Thanks to everybody that made this happen. Go Watch the movie. It's good movie. It's really like it. You're going to hear. Oh Try Trent. Should we talk about what's next? Happened in next week? I was going to say so. I think we're going to discuss this film next week. That is how our show works. Who Do you think we'll have on a guest to discuss it with us, because I think we might. We've been taught saying tale of WHO. We saw this with just Jackson Clark and I think there's a good chance that if you tune into the discussion next week, that he may show up. I think that there is a good probability of that. Yeah, Nice, not guaranteed. So I could happen. You could break his arm, raise Le Bas kneecaps, have a bring head injury, or he'll be on the show. I'll have a great, great discussion. Yeah, I mean one of those options will happen. You know. Yep. Well, part I've had enough, haven't you? Haven't you? This is going to be a long episode for the People at home, I think. Is it what the interview is like? Less than an hour long? It was like fifty five minutes. All right, guys, have you stuck with us for the full hour. We appreciate your time and which. That being said, since you've come this far, rate rate us on apple music. Yeah, our apple podcasts and on spotify goes five stars. We want a review, we want that sponsorship bb. We want to make big dollar, dollar bills, we want to be rich and famous and we want Cocacola to sponsor us. So we end. We and we need your help. But I think that is it for now. Join US next week for our discussion for the of the movie, and and good one. After that litt'll be even more movies that we'll talk about right now. It's going to be fucking crazy, guys. Yep, it's going to be. If you can't sell buy our top to that. Is that our Oscar special? We got to look at the document, but you got to go into the got to go into the Google drive folder. Is it though? Like I'm pretty sure the Oscars is sneaking up on us, because the Oscars are on the twenty seven and our episode is on the twenty. Will we even make it to the Oscars? Will make it. We'll make it all right. Goodbye, Bor the episode every ending.

Now my Scin, it's burning.

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