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Episode 1 · 2 years ago

STAR WARS: THE FORCE AWAKENS (2015) Discussion

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this first episode Parth and Trent discuss what they eat. They also talk about the seventh episode in some franchise. 

Edited by Parth Marathe

Our do me a favor. What had you consumed most recently? Go the age old question. The Internet is begging for answers. I myself made a salad. My mother made me. So you didn't make it at all. It sounds like your mother made it for you. I often have my mommy make me food. Then why'd you try to take credit? I feel like I was pretty transparent. I said my mom made it for me. You said I made a salad, my mom made for me. Oh, I meant to say ate then. Oh, this is so I sound like an asshole. That's exactly what I'm pointing out to the world. Thank you well, Trent, since you're so quick to judge, what did you eat? You know what's far as I actually prepared my own meal, would you, because I'm a competent human adult person. So, you know, just blended up a little little nutritious smoothie to what's in it to keep the scurvy at bay? Just a bunch of vitamin C nutrients, vitamin have a lot of lemon juice. It was like ninety nine percent lemon juice and place good it, I guess. So. I guess I just drank lemonade. Is what I'm getting at. But then also there was toast pads butter, so I guess it was. First it was bread and I toasted it, then it was toast and then I buttered it and then it was buttered toast and then I ate it. So it sounds delicious. So That's enough of that. Onto the next segment. I'd like to welcome our audience to craft services. That's the name of the show. We're new podcast talking about movies and things. So our first adventure, for our first digital triumph, is going to be the three most recent star wars movies. I guess, not most recent, but the newest trilogy, being the Newest Saga Films, the most recent saga film. Excuse me, I didn't want the cannon nerds to come after me, but it's going to be force awakens this week and then, you know, immediately followed by last Jedi and then, surprise, the prize price, the Skywalker. Yep, and we're going to share our opinions and there will be other elements to the show. There will be guests, there will be interviews, we're going to try to have some fun and keep you thoroughly entertained for our first episode. It's just going to be my big PAL Trent. I'll gare that may and you part morate. Thank you, Co cohosts. Isn't that? Isn't that beautiful? We're going to try to contribute equally and if one person's if there if a power imbalance, pops up, will try to correct it immediately. This relationship needs to be steady because if parth and I get divorced, the podcast is over and you may not know how the Star Wars Saga completes. So this is all on you people. Well, we know. Basically, we know the audience does is looking to our opinion to see whether or not they should check these films out. Well, they haven't even heard of star wars yet. This is their first sneak preview. Wow, I feel honored, to be completely honest. Yeah, I don't know how they haven't caught wind of it yet. As far as I know, it's kind of been like a pop culture sensation, but the I just got fifty years. Yeah, yeah, the reports are coming in that one hundred percent of our audience is completely unfamiliar to the franchise. So it's our unique opportunity and privilege to guide them down this Galactic Journey. Well, I've been a lifelong star wars fan since beginning of your life, since conception, since you were erected out of the test tube that created you. Right, breaking news. Part is a test tube baby can call. I'm not going to confirm or deny that came. He was concocted in a lab off the in. Mom's going to be listening. Ink of this. You know that. Well, your quote unquote, mom, that that's what she tells you. Okay, fair enough. You were specifically placed with parents who kind of resemble you physically, just to make it that much more convincing. HMM. But if they were going to create like a mutant such as yourself, with like such powers and capabilities, then it would have to be it couldn't be natural, like they selected your your strainds of DNA, like handpicked.

It was a very meticulous process to birth the second coming of let's not get love. I know who. Well, it's not get into I am let's not get into that, but part quit. Get back on track. Just tell, sorry, tell the people about your relationship with star was my fault. Well, I suppose I've always enjoyed the original trilogy classics and when I was very little I enjoyed the prequel trilogy because it had lots of flashing colors. Then I grow a little older and then I bought into the like hate machine that exists for the prequel trilogy. And now I guess I would say that I think there there's a lot of potential there that was missed, but I don't hate them. I've made my peace with them. My earliest memory in my life is seeing star wars episode three, revenge of the Sith, in theaters in two thousand and five. So I guess the first four years of my life are a complete blur, but that's where I really started paying attention. But from that point, I guess, I was introduced to the original movies and what's not to like? And then revisited the prequel trilogy and, like parts said, I enjoyed the explosions and this CGI madness. And yes, although I haven't viewed them and like at least five years. It's so easy to say that you hate the prequels because there's such a burden to go back and watch in order to change your opinion. But I feel like the universal, the most people feel that revenge of the Sith is the saving grace. Yet fent phantom menace, people argue, is completely negligible. And then attack of the clones is just objectively bad and I'd say most people think is the worst. But, more more importantly, the new movies, upon them coming out, I like wanted to hate them, just to be like a loyalist to the originals, but I really because of course, of course I'm going to go opening night and I'm going to pay my sixteen dollars to see it like opening weekend. But I and and of course I'm going to have fun, I'm going to buy my popcorn. But I think part of it, especially since it was acquired by Disney and we're supposed to hate Disney for being rich and powerful. You would think that they would corrupt the one sacred star wars, and maybe I've closed my mind off to them. Actually like honoring and loving the source material. But I had a very different experience. I mean I I think I was skeptical, but once the marketing came out, I was I was pretty on board with it from the get go. I think the Force Awakens definitely stimulated me, for what it's worth. And then the last Jedi was the first movie where I walked away and I was like utter, like I don't want to say like repulsed, but definitely like unhappy. And maybe I was just a team a teenager and I was trying to like go against the current, because my whole family was like, oh, what a what a joyous joy ride, and I was just trying to be up in arms about things not making sense and act thing like I knew more than the average bear and it was my additional insight that allowed me to see pass like the the the Disney gaze, and but what? We'll save that for next week. And then rise of Skywalker, I think is still just about three hours of stuff I saw three times in theaters and still don't fully comprehend. So you saw the rise of Skywalker three times because the first two times I went to see it I fell asleep and I woke up during the credits, and so I would have to pay additional installments to go back and like fill in the gaps. So after the after after the first two times of seeing the movie, already investing upwards of thirty dollars, I didn't know that I didn't know some of the essential spoilers. So, upon take three, it was really surprising all the things that I had missed.

But I guess, I guess we should sent our audiences made up one hundred percent of people that have no clue with star wars has. I Guess I should give the synopsis. You make a good point. Yeah, read, read the plot summary. So this is this is straight from IMDB. Way To site forces part of the one one. I'm coming after us to be que to plagiarism. We don't. I know this podcast has a lot of capital and resources, but we can't take a lawsuit right now. It's true. These are hard times, heard economic times, and what the world needs right now, though, is another podcast about star wars. So straight from my MDB. As a new threat to the galaxy rises, Ray, a desert scavenger and Finn and x stormtrooper must join Han Solo and Chewbacca to search for the one hope of restoring peace. It's a it's a very succinct one sentence summary. They exclude Po entirely, even though he's, you know, one of the main characters. Well, we both watched this movie. I watched it last night. I wanted it this morning. Sorry, part okay, and so we both took notes and we have our thoughts. So so, Trent, what would you say? Like what numbered viewing would you say? This is for you of this movie. I've seen it at least five times at this point, but I watched it with subtitles this time around, which was a first, and I have to say I actually appreciated it more and I thought that, like this, the screenwriting was like very quick and witty, which was an acclamade. I had been resisting awarding the movie, but I think it's inevitable and I finally have to concede to its success because, I mean, just for starters, you know the first line where Star Wars reveals that it's comedic now, where Poe and and kyle lower staring at each other and they're like, Oh, who talks now? Ha Ha. Right, I didn't. I didn't mind that because, I mean, I spoilers. I took a look at trens notes. I'm cheating and I apologize. But you and a lot of other people say that that's kind of Disney trying to be marvel, more like marvel, and I would I kind of have to disagree because, all right, part state your counter argument if you're going to walk all over me yet just get it over with. Like the reason I have an issue with the marvel movies humor is because and the marvel movies only become the way we associate like oh well, they're jokey and funny. They only really become like that in the avengers, like iron man one and two, or probably the most like jokey of them all before that. But it's still the reason it works in the avengers is that it's all character based humor and and it's not just like people randomly making jokes, which is people took the humor from the avengers and decided it would be a good idea to apply it to every character, and so that's when you get the marvel movies. And I don't really have a problem with most of the humor in this because it all feels like like post saying who talks for as mere you. That all feels very in in character for him, because he's he's putastic, he's supposed to be that way. And you don't. You don't really hear like ray or or like you don't hear Leia or something like. All I've each person's humor feels very attuned to them. Yeah, but I definitely think that this movie is trying to be funny more. It's definitely the most comedy Oriented Star Wars Movie. I wouldn't say I would say it's like hitherto. It's the most it's one searching for the most laps, because I think the originals are funny in like a subtle way that don't draw attention to themselves, and then the prequels bring in like gearj oar banks for comic relief, which was unsuccessful. But I do think that this strikes like a balance, like I think Beba is great comic relief and I think that there are a lot of good moments that I was trying to contain myself, but I had the chuckle. Disney earned it. So so you say you don't have an issue with the humor. I really wanted to hold a grudge against STI because in argument I've heard, you know, via many youtube conspiracy is that like...

...the Marvel Universe is somewhat like an absurd idea, being that it's superheroes walking around New York City and we you know New York City isn't like that. So it calls attention to itself. It's not so there. It's not meant to be. Like they make a point of saying, isn't this whacky? Like it's not, as opposed to star wars, where the world is whacky and everybody kind of knows that. Yeah, I just think in with superheroes, you there's already a suspension of disbelief, and so it's like satirical that they're like that. They're acknowledging like the Inherent Stupidity of it. But Star Wars, like it's a drama that takes place in space and they there's no reason for it to be stupid. But I I know, I feel like I think that argument could be made if it wasn't done as well as it was. Yeah, although I would like, like the original trilogy is not even the original trilogy has its fair share of stupid humor, like it's not like it doesn't even even empire takes doesn't take it till that seriously like it takes. What I think it does is it strikes a correct tonal balance by saying, by basically having all of the character stuff that remains serious, because that's what you're supposed to take seriously, but they do have like all sorts of I mean there's a whole like subplot about like c three Po getting torn apart and then like and then to Chaka, like puts him on backwards and Shit. So it's like it's not like it's devoid of stupid humor, it just knows when and how to apply it, which I think forts, awakens, it does it more, but I think it's still it doesn't it doesn't take away from the seriousness or the gravity of the situation. I think maybe I'm just blind to the comedy of like the S and s movies, because the jokes are like of their time, so I don't really recognize them. But like the jokes and in this are like so two thousand and fifteen, it feels. It feels a lot more modern, in which I guess for like the whole the whole movie feels more modern. Well, yeah, just like the like the language the characters use is even though it's like only thirty years since the end of return of the Jedi, it's updated itself to take place in our version of modern day, which I guess makes sense. I'm okay with it. I mean I'm fine with that the only reason the original trilogy people talk the way they do is because of George Lucas and he can't write convincing dialog HMM. So I'm fine with people sounding like real people. I'm confused about the first order. Like in the title crawl it says that they've risen from the ashes of the empire. Great, but I'm wondering, like how, like, what was like? Like that's that's an issue I had when I was watching at this time, because I was a huge fan of this movie, like at a certain point I'll say this was my favorite Star Wars movie, bold and it's not anymore. But it's like third but like, watching it this time, I just felt like the not that it like really matters for the journey of the characters and things, but like the whole idea that there is a republic, but then there's also the first order, but then there's also the resistance which is secretly being fueled by the republic. So it's all very confusing and theomen seen so many mirror arts. Yeah, and the scene where the first order destroys the republic doesn't it's a well shot, it's a wellmade scene. That is that where they blow up the five planets at once. Yeah, like, like it just doesn't have much impact because we don't understand what that changes really were those just like the republic. They were all contained to those to that one like system, which were conveniently nearby each other. I'm gonna trip read that to Jj Abrams. Writing. I had no idea what that. I thought that they were just blowing up five planets, much like an older on, to like set an example. But I thought that it was pointless for that, like they could have exploited like the resources and like the people on those planets are like turn them to their side. But if you just like obliterate them, and also if you're going to like set a precedent, like disobey us and will blow you up, then like why waste an additional four planets? They you could use to your own benefit? Because, like, I agree, but also ultimately I feel like it doesn't matter. But here, okay, at this point...

...in the movie where they blow up those planets, the resistance has the star map, so there's no reason why the first order should go like hey, if you don't give that to us, we're going to blow up these five planets and then I feel like there resistance. Would be hard pressed to not agree with that ultimatum. And then and then the movie is just over. So I feel like that is like a lapse in logic. There's lots of lapses and logic and convenient I mean, this is for Jj Abrams movie. I feel like this has the least amount of like blatant like plot holes, I guess, like or plot holes and plot conveniences. I'm I'm okay with not knowing. I would prefer if I didn't, but I'm okay with not really understanding how the politics of everything works, because it's pretty clear that Jj Abrahams doesn't really give a shit about how the politics of this stuff works, because what's important is the characters and all you need really is the compression force of the first order, and that's basically you know, that's the enemy. And so I'm okay with him simplifying things down and not trying to like, well, realistically, if you wanted to create like have the more mighty, you would want to take over those planets and strip them of their resources. And I'm okay with him saying they just want to use star killer bass as a blunt force instrument and just destroy planets. I mean it's pretty you could make the same case for you really could make the same case for the original Star Wars in what regard. Like why would you brow up all drawn to show Princess Leah that you're not playing around? But I mean that also wowing. How sting it out? They didn't even know if it worked yet. I but then, but then you but like the whole point of making the the star killer base or the death star, like what has intimidation factor? Yeah, I mean that, like I'm fine with it being used. I'm okay with it, like I don't really have an issue with it. The only issue I have is that that scene is supposed to be emotional and mean something and Finn Yells like they destroyed the republic. It's all gone. You only know, like what the Republic is or why we should go. Yeah, we don't. The only real at the only problem I have with it is that it doesn't mean anything because it's never fully explained to us. Well, I guess you're just left to assume that the republic from the prequel trilogy that had been toppled has now been restored, and it's just like the the Democratic Galactic government and they and then they're solely opposed by the first order. But I'm wondering, like, what was the refractory period between the empire and the first order? Because, and I it's thirty years. The movie takes place thirty years afterwards. Well, no, I understand that, but it's like how long after having, after like having your second death star blow blown up, are you like all right, like let's try this a third time? That's yeah, yeah, and also, how when did they decide to start recruiting like real human babies for for of their storm troopers rather than the clone technique from prior that happens, I mean that happens between the prequel trilogy and original trilogy. What? What? Yeah, when, who mentioned? Well, well, it's I mean, no one told me. Well, I mean, if that's an issue you have, and that's not really an issue that with this like forts awakens, because that what basically happens. Is that, I guess, George, because you mentioned the clone wars in episode for right. Yeah, he was like, well, I should have a clone army in my prequel trilogy explaining everything. So you're saying that they only had like they were only identical like genetic replicas, because George Lucas had that one like throw away, throw a line of dialog because and then also, like in I'm not sure which of it is cannon, which if it isn't, but it's supposed to be that in like extended universe shit like that, they stop using clones between between the prequel trilogy and the original trilogy, because what's it called? Like if you look at the original trilogy, they're all...

...different heights, they all have different voices. Like it doesn't it doesn't make any sense for them to not be correct like normal people. But I don't have any I feel calling them the clone army, like you really could have gotten away with like a looser definition of the word clone. He didn't really have to like lean into this mistake so much. Is I feel, like it like it confuses. It wasn't even a mistake. It was literally just in one line luke talks about how, Oh, you were there for the clone wars, and then George Lucas decided to take that one line and extrapolate it into this entire pot of the second prequel. Ridiculous. Yeah, another thing I thought was silly. This literally the second shot of the movie where there's the troop transport going to Jaku with all the storm troopers on board, is that the electricity is flickering and also the ride is very bumpy. Meanwhile, space has no terrain, so I thought was silly. I feel like it doesn't matter yours. It's it's done for you're just willing to look past these gaping holes. Here's the thing. Jj Abrahams has a penchant for doing things that don't really make sense, because but what it does do is it allows for visual clarity and or like pacing, like like like to make things better, paste and like stuff like that. Doesn't really bother me because it's not that's done very clearly, because the light flickering be pretty cool, and I'm okay with like it being rumbly in the spaceship because they're landing and it's supposed to kind of be like troops going into I mean, the structure resolved is very blatantly stolen from World War II. Yeah, I was just going to say, wait, supposed to be like thanks going into like jet like like like in Saving Private Ryan, like it's all learning of ded a part, let's just say it. Yeah, I'm saying JJ Abraham's not only steal from a new hope, but he also stole from Saving Private Ryan and for that, for that he will be punished. Yeah, he has no original ideas. I think Kylo Wren, while like at minute seven it is revealed that he is related to like a white side main character and then about an hour in he takes his mask off for the first time. and to me it okay, like with the original trilogy were it took two full movies to find out where, like, oh, like vaders, Luke's father. It just feels like they're they're catering to the fan service like almost immediately. I almost completely disagree. Fine, parts, take it away, state your mind the okay. So upon this Rewatch of force awakens, I feel like it's it kind of gets taken further with last Jedi. But but like it's kind of a Meta commentary on Star Wars itself in that like the whole point of the force awakens is that it was supposed to basically reunite fans after the prequels were so wildly different from the original trilogy, and it basically wanted something safe that could unite the fan base. And boy with this safe, and this is safe. But but other than star killer base, I'm okay with it re using the same plot beats as a new hope, because it's not like trying to hot like people treat it like it's a Gotcha, but it's it's not like they ever tried to hide that. It was pretty much the same thing as and you hope. The idea is that it's all being used as a structure so that you have a vehicle for your new characters to be bounced when too with your with the fan favorites. Yeah, yeah, so, so the idea like, oh, like Luke Skywalker, like being a myth, like like and Ray not being really sure what that is and all of that stuff. Like I feel like that the cool way because it makes y your audience surrogates who's sort of been she kind of becomes a person that doesn't really know what Star Wars is and doesn't know all of these things. I think them not being knowledgeable of the past, though. It's just like practically like food, like it's ridiculous, because the entire galaxy is ruled by it's like like Fascist dictator that's blowing up planets and building death stars and then this rebellion comes along, like led by like a some force users and they like...

...top all of the regime and I think that that would like go down in history and everyone would be told would. But she's on Jack who, which is like a like a nowhere planet, so like I can buy that. She has no clue who who like Luke, like I can. I can buy that. One scene made me reflect on that in particular, where fin and Han or talking and they're throwing a bunch of space lingo back and forth and I was like, Huh, well, I know that Finn has been in the first orders, like captivity is entire life, so that means he must have been through some sort of like education system to be taught like how to be good soldier. And thinking about like their evil school system is really funny because it seems like they had like space history and they had like space geography and all, and but they befin only speaks English, while Ray speaks a bunch of other languages. So the first order isn't bilangual. It is confirmed. HMM. What I was going to say was basically to get back to Kylo Ren. Sure, Kylo Ren is my favorite star wars character. I can't fight you on that part. Elaborate tell the audience why. So here's the reason why. Because I don't think what they were trying to do, what they're trying to do with Kylo Ren is what they're trying to do with Darth Vader, with the whole like Meta thing that they've kind of done with the force awakens and again, further than the last Jedi, is that all of these characters are two varying levels aware of the past. Right sure, and so because of that they the whole series. I mean, I really like the like opening sequence of Ray on Jack, who where she's like sitting in the ruins of a star destroyer and of an etat and it feels like fan service, but it feeds into this whole idea that they are in the ruins of the previous saga and where do you go from here? And so Kylo rent to me is like he's interesting because he's kind of an inversion of Darth Vader, of somebody that he is just a fan boy, if ray is the surrogate for the normal audience member, Kylo and as a circuit for crazy people that love star wars, and he's not. You know Darth vader has a mask on because he's like severely, like physically damaged, whereas a Kyli Ren just does it in like nostalgia for his admiration for Darth Vada, like he so wants to be like darth vader that he he creates this whole masquerade. Like like I really like the idea that he is not a monster, he's just trying to pretend like that, and that that kind of where that point gets supported. Is like that whole one of the better scenes in the movie is like Ray and Kylo Ren, like Kylo man's trying to like use the force and to it get cracked the map from her brain. Yeah, right, and and she's like she's fighting him back on that and he's like and she's like, oh well, you're just scared you're never going to be like darth vader. Yeah, and I'm like, like the tantrums and all of that. Like I feel like all of that is very cool and it's a way of it's kind of a comment on like the rage that like this, this sort of mistaken admiration can take you. Also, I think his young behavior is like very reminiscent of like Anakin Skywalker when he was starting to get actually when he was like starting to get tempted by the dark side, and instead of slaughtering sand people and young Padawans, he just takes it out on like his desktop and his assistance, which is exactly and it's understandable and I think that it's much more it's a very interesting idea to have somebody that's from that's in the dark side and fields the like, the light side calling to them and they want to shut that out and remain in the dark side, which is kind of an inversion of Darth vader. I feel like it's an interesting dynamic and because of that, I feel like it's not fan service in that regard for trying trying to Oh, don't you remember when we took the mask off in empire and return at the Jedi? Yeah, and I agree that, like Adam driver is a great a actor, but it just and I understand that you want to like show that off, because...

...he's a lot more emotive when you like, you know, get to see his face and everything, but it just feels like there wasn't as much of a reveal because, like I didn't have time to like grow curious as like what he like looks like, because it was available to me like pretty soon. Like if you if I didn't get to see what his face like, what he looked like, until like the last movie, I would have been so curious, but now it's yet I feel like I don't know what that serves, though, because that's kind of just like it's just a mystery for no reason. It's amazing for the sake of mystery. Yeah, like it's it's because like Darth Vader, like, what does he look like? That's not really like something that's part. It's not really part of the like, Oh, what is darth vader? What is he under the mask? That's not really what any of the movies are about. The fact that we see who he is under the mask. He's just a byproduct of the story, at least in the original trilogy. I guess there's no reason to be that curiate, like to wonder about Vader's appearance, because at that point I don't even think you know he's human until you find out that he's related to another human character, because at that point he could just be like some robotic evil guy, and as far as we know, this galaxy has those. I think that Kyla Ren like had to be related to. Yeah, because if just like some random new evil guy we've never heard of was now like the main antagonist, we'd be like Oh, like, we don't care if this human name like Jonathan like became evil one day and then like started and then became relevant and powerful, because none is the original. Fans big well, that's so disjointed, like has nothing to do with like the empire. Both raised parents. I think the only reason people criticize the trope of this generation being like loosely related to the old generation is because this entire movie is like is like tiptoeing around revealing who who raise parents are, and I largely think that because at this stage in the development they didn't know who they wanted it to be, so they just wanted to leave their options open and that's what they did. I don't feel like maybe I think, well, obviously JJ Abrams wanted her to be related to somebody, but I don't I don't know. I feel like it's not whether it was the intention of the filmmakers or not. I feel like you gain nothing by making her related to somebody else, because it doesn't add anything unless like, like Kylo rend the reason it works that he's the son of is, of Lea and Han is that it, that's his primary motivation, is that he is angry at those that raised him and and this is his, is way of lashing out, whereas making ray, whose entire characters basically been created when she wasn't raised by anybody, trying to find, well, who are her parents? I don't feel like that's even a question in the movie. It's wants a will they come back? It's so infuriating to me, like watching ray like pass up very like tempting opportunities to like move forward with her life when she's already been waiting for her parents for like fifteen years, and I was like right, it's time to give up. Hope they and I. That's the character arc. I mean then she then she called the the light taber calls to her and then she goes on to find Luke skywalker. So do you know how to? Ray keeps a tally chart in her it at at of like since parents left her. She doesn't use like she doesn't use the slash every five, I think, every time that I watched it. Yeah, it's infuriating, like at a glance. There's no way for her to be like. Okay, my parents abandoned me this long ago. Yeah, that that's fine, though. I'll learn to forgive. This is the first star wars movie where you like see characters bleed, is it? I mean, I feel like you see, you see, you see blood and empire. Well, you see blood and new hope when the guy in the CANTEENA gets his arm sever but in this movie Kylo Ren gets shot and leads starts punching his wound. Yeah,...

...he really just like shows it. Whose boss. But in my question is, like, shouldn't lasers, much like lightsabers, like immediately cauterize the wound, I guess. But again, like you're willing to look past these, these trivialise part because the point is is that you need a visual way to show he's injured. You need to show that he's injured, but not so injured that he can't like be in combat. And I'm I'm fine with like. Again, it's the thing of like, they're people that will be that there are two types of Star Wars fans in my eyes. There's there's The star wars fans that really get into the lore of things and it really matters to them, like the spaceships, the like, the the types of spaceships. You know. Well, what does a lightsaber actually do? How does it function? You know, there's Chibra, crystals and all of that, and then there's what and that I think that's mostly like from the prequel trilogy, because the Prequel trilogy basically just exists to answer questions people had about the original trilogy, whereas the original trilogy kind of uses spaceships and lightsabers and everything like that and as is considered accepted. Well, it's just background. It's just a background thing for this story of the first movie and Adventure Story and like it's all just a background. It's not the point of the movie. And so with what I find is with Star Wars, when you get into disagreement with people, you get you you generally if you disagree with somebody, in a lot of the cases it's from a fan that just view star wars differently, because to some people star wars is all of the specifics and how things work and to other people it's that stuff cannot really matter as long as the character stuff works. So you know, so part am I delusional, or does this entire movie lay the groundwork for a thin ray romance that is then immediately abandoned. I think there's a lot of scenes where it feels like that. But I feel like the chic, the multi kisses in part that that mean nothing to your forehead, on the forehead. I've kissed you many times on the forehead and other places. Well, we don't let's we don't even them to that. Talk about that on our own time. anyways. See it seven. The moment at which there would logically be a kiss is when they reunite on the on star killer base, and when that doesn't happen, I go okay, so platonic. Also, I was expecting a kissed between Han and Leiah that but I'll settle for a hug. I thought that was tasteful, but I yeah, I have to say I found like, of course, nice to see carry Fisher again. Rest in peace. So I can't be too hard when the when the actor is dead. But I thought it's not her fault, because I'm about to criticize the script. I thought that all of her lines were like so preachy and that she overacted it a little bit. But I have to compliment the dynamic between her and Han, because you could really sense like the depth of their like the history of their relationship, like what brought them together and like what eventually broke them up. I like seeing them together. I like their first interaction. I feel like like with the like different hair, like different your jackets, to say, like, I feel like that stuff is good. But on the whole, I feel like especially Harrison Ford's dialog. For some reason it was just the most expository. Like he is our son. I saw him, our son, he's too gone, and then lays I want to I want him back. Don't you understand? We were the ones that turned them to the dark side. I sent him off to Luke to train. I Brin. That didn't work. It's like they never had this conversation before. Also, they keep referring to him only as our son, just so they can call him been in the third act and you're like that's a character, that's the name of the character we know. Yeah, like I don't have an issue with that necessarily, but like the like, like I'm generally fine with kind of shoddy exposition, but it was just so blatant this time that I was watching it when it really grounds my gears. Let's hear it. How objects and you know, Knick knacks, es, central items from earlier movies magically reappear with no explanation, like vader's helmet, which was burnt to a crisp on end or probably like sold by an ewalk on the Internet, and then Luke's lightsaber that, as we all know, got cut off a cloud...

...city, and we would be wouldn't? No one found that. It's long gone and we just need to let go. We can use new items. It's fine, I'm I'm sure that these new lights it that the old lights there was a very powerful and will trigger ray to have all sorts of dramatic nightmares, flat flashbacks. But and then Han, rightfully so, is like hey, Mas, like where'd you find this? And she's like, Oh, I'll tell you later, since we are conveniently under attack. There's no time for this story. That I can't answer. Yeah, I mean that's another okay, are you? Are you willing to look past this part? Okay, I realize I'm coming off as a lot, as a very big apologist for for a lot of the conveniences that come about. Or you're just very forgiving, aren't you okay? Here's the reason I'm okay with it is because, again, the whole like Meta thing, like, if we're to take like if it's supposed to be these people living within the ruins and the like past of the original trilogy and continuing on from there, you're going to need some of the iconography of it, right, and I'm okay with that. I'm okay with the DARTH vader helmet. I mean it's weird that that would be there, but but again, like it's so much more visually affecting for you to see darth vader's birds of helmet then it would be if he was just talking to the force or something like feeling framed picture of him. Yeah, like, like it's just going to be like that's just a like humans that will react more viscerily to a physical object than they will the abstract idea of him talking to forced Anakin that just hollows and which is Hollywood baby exactly. And so the the the Lightsaber, is more egregious, but again because it's it's Anakin's and then it's Luke's. But I'm okay with it, even though it doesn't really make sense, because it serves a story purpose, which is you you have fin trying to take on that like a dress when he gets it, and then right taking it on. So I'm okay because it furthers the thematic stuff the movie is trying to go for. Is it just me, or do you think that there would have been like mutinies or like strikes or like unionization among the employees of the first order? Is I feel like all they do is like commit genocide, and I know that they're like taken from a young age and like manipulated, but I feel like there has to be some sort of like unrest. I well, I guess there was like the Nazis and there wasn't that many turncoats. But wait, part. Did you see the obvious Nazi parallels with with General? Maybe when they raise their left arm? Oh, and they put it in a certain position, which reminds me of something. Star Wars is pretty known for being pretty subtle. So I'm I'm quite bothered that they made this so obvious. This is kind of random, but I did research on the production history of this movie. A part tells about the production history of the movie. Cou Waste in time. Just get into it. Okay, okay, basically, two thousand and twelve Lucasfilm is acquired by Disney. They got bought for a bunch of money, for billion dollars. WHOA part do you have four billion dollars every now and then? Let's not get into that. Okay, anyways. So, basically, George Lucas had treatments for he had sequel story ideas and had treatments for episode seven, eight and nine, which he gave over to Disney and then Disney shredded looked at them, looked at them and swiftly threw them into the trash can and then lit the trash can on fire and then they put the trash can and they sent it in the space because I'm stir so, no, no, in Spain. Yeah, no, it was one of those space dumpsters. Right. They had just based dump through fires, which are rare but known to happen. Okay, so the scripts are obliterated. Then what happens? So basically, they they they went through a long process of trying to find the correct writer. There was a the first screenplay was written by a guy named Michael aren't and he worked on the movie for about eight months or so. He's known for working on little Miss Sunshine,...

...wally toy story three. What a track record. But his best and perhaps most well regarded film would be cars to Oh you didn't mention that. He played a part in cars too. I wish you'd brought this up sooner, I know. anyways, but basically they were trying to find the correct directors and they cycled through a few people they wanted they try. Had first they contacted David Fincher, which I feel would have been interesting. I don't think he's the right person for Star Wars, but yeah, I think that would have been like the version of Star Wars like I want to see. But I think they I think they ended up going with Jj Abrams, like, Oh wait, you did star trek a few years ago. That also takes place in space. You are you're qualified. Well, David Fitcher, I'd like to see him take off, like take on and like a spinoff or something. Yes, but I don't think that would ever happen. I think that his style would be so out of line with whatever came before, with the safest, most commercially profitable product that Disney would want to put out. Correct anyways. So they cycled through a few people. Ben Affleck was one potential candidate. Jon Favreau, who recently did the lion can remake but also did the jungle book. He's made the first two iron man movies, so he has a production history with Disney and also most recently did the Mandalorian. And the closest that they came to not JJ Abrams was Brad Bird from the incredibles. Yes, and he could have gotten the job but declined because he was working on the movie Tomorrowland and. Well, good thing I haven't heard of that, but I have heard of Star Wars. It's a flawed movie, but his thing was that it was an original movie and he had spent time working on the script and that movie was going to get the go ahead and star wars was going to get made anyways. So I can kind of understand that. Tomorrowland and based on the Disney section it is. Well, it's not based off of but it it. That's part of a movie. Got You. It's kind of like a pirate of Caribbean situation, like it's it's not like based off of it, but it is part of them. Just Johnny Depp make an appearance as Captain Jackson, is the main character Oh what a relief. I wouldn't think that he would be like so boundary bending like that and appear in these completely unrelated movies, but it's good to know that he can cross cinematic universes because he's just so powerful. Exactly. Anyways, he does suggest Colin Trevarro, who went on to do Jurassic world and is now going to do the third Jurassic World and was also supposed to do the Third Star Wars Sequel Trilogy Movie, but that ended up not happening. I thought it would have been interesting if they did three different directors, because when they did jj and then Brian Johnson, I was like, all right, who is next, but then it just felt like they were correcting their mistake by going back to JJ. Well, that's pretty much what it was because because, like Colin Trevarro did a movie called the Book of Henry, which is very negatively reviewed and comes great to me. I like it already. And at that time also, they had just come out with Solo, which was a flop. MMM. So I based, I'm pretty sure, what they wanted for that, which I guess we can get in that at when we talked about rise Skywalker, but they just wanted a safe director. But I was very pleased with Jj Abrahams because I'm a fan of the Star Trek reboot. He directed mission impossible three, which jump started my favorite action series, and I think he's he's he's generally very good with characters and pacing and I think what star wars needed at the moment was that, after coming off the heels of the prequel trilogy. So and then another thing is they hired him as director, and then he was also going to be a CO writer with lot Lawrence Kasden, who directed empire. Right, he wrote, he cowrote empire. All right, I'll time most enough empire and Co wrote return of the Jedi. And so basically the Michael Aren't version of the script. Nothing came of that. They basically threw that out the garbage because he said that he needed another year and a half to work on it and they were like, well, we don't time, we don't have time for that. So they're like, Chris men, we this bitch is got to be out by Christmas. was originally scheduled for a May twenty five release. Oh, some, some, a black best. Yeah, because because that...

...was that was what all of the other star wars movies have been around that time. Yeah, so my entire lifetime. When woman the temperature drops, I'm like, Oh, it's skywalker season. You know. Well, it ended up working out because they only pushed it back because, production wise, they needed the time. But then it worked out because what blockbuster movies come out in December, and so then star wars had like a monopoly on the like big blockbuster, big budget action adventure movie scene. And another thing, another thing that's important to Disney as merchandising. So falling at it during the holiday season didn't seem like an accident to me, because I think there are so many decisions made in the new trilogy like, for example, like three Pos red arm and poorgus and Beba. I think that definitely making them into plush toys or changing characters slightly so people can get the latest model is definitely fueled by the thought of toy sales. Yep, I was just going to ask you. What do you think of Jj Abram's directing style? I thought it was somewhat like, like, like like understate. I don't want to say absent, because I liked the movie a lot and I thought that I just feel like when you put I just read the budget of this movie and it was nearly five hundred million dollars and well, including marketing. Yes, yeah, it said that after production it was like two hundred fifty million, or something like a lot of must hundred forty five million, and then twice that for marketing. Sure, I'd like when you sink that much money into a Mo movie, it often just feels like colorful CGI and like it's so expensive that like to a certain degree, it like has to look good, and obviously you're paying so many different people so much money to like make these things digestible that it's kind of inexcusable that looks bad. So I kind of just take it as a given that things are gonna like look Nice, and I think it it satisfies that. But when I'm watching Star Wars, the last thing I'm thinking about is the direction compared to other movies, maybe because I'm so focused on like the characters and and the world that I don't really think about like the camera angles or or like camera angles or movement or Miss ownsend stuff like that. What about you, part you probably you probably have an opinion. I do. I I think it's share what the franchise at the time needed. Because if you, if you obviously visually, this is more in line with the original trilogy than it is the Prequel trilogy. Fair, but but if you even even beyond that, which I think is another issue with the movie, which is that I think the production design is to slavishly like we need to make this look like the original trilogy, well, I like I think that they're returning to like basics and like using practical effects again, which I applaud it for, because the prequels were crucified for in the early two s with the technology available for things looking so bad and like in what it was. But then, but then I don't have a problem with like I really like that they use practical effects. But but it's like the design of the ships is just exactly the same as it is, like they don't use it, like it, they just use x wings and they just use high fighters and they just use start to store it. It's exactly the same as the as the death star. Well, I just feel like it's the greatest hits part, like they they take out why wings? Because no one cares about them. It is that it is the greatest hits album. HMM, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. But and then, but like to get back to the direct direction, like, I think, get it back on track. parth. This is the point where Jj Abrahms kind of like honed in his director talent, I think, because if you wash mission of possible three, there's it is almost entirely filmed in close ups because he's used to television, because he had lost he did alias, he did fringe, he did forgetting the name of it, but it was a felicity way to go. And and so he was a very he was...

...a TV director. So they use a lot of close ups on that. And so it's very chaotic and the editing is very quick cut in mission possible three, and it that that problem kind of lessons and lessons with each of his movies, like then Star Trek, two thousand and nine is it's still very quick cutting, very close up, but it's a little bit less of that. And by this point I think he had kind of figured out what level to do, because it feels it feels very much visually in line with the other movies, but it's still like there's a lot of like dynamic camera movements and the editing is much more fast paced than even the original trilogy. Like I was going to say, like every shot feels like it's moving and it's very wide, to the point where, on the few occasions where they're like intimate conversations between two characters and you're supposed to really be paying attention and feeling the dramatic tension and just then using like shot, reverse shot and just like close ups for a change, it's like striking like just in terms of like the variance or the contrast from the rest of the movie. Yeah, I'm with the conversation scenes. I just felt like I felt like there could have been some more interest. I mean all of the conversation scenes are pretty much all shot and close ups and it's all shot very shot. But, like you said, like all of the other stuff is pretty much all shot with like dollies and cranes and like all these like crazy like whi pans and things like that. So it's I think it's it does provide a nice variance and image. What did you what did you think of John Williams has is score? I read that he got his fifty Oscar nomination for this movie. Diddy and I think that raised theme is like the best piece of music to come out of like this new trilogy. I also think that Kylos theme is like a better version of the imperial March. I know that that's a bold statement, but other I mean they play the force theme at least seven five times. So I feel to a certain degree they like they have so much already made music and their back pocket that like nothing can help itself from sounding like something you've heard before. But I guess that's not really their fault, because it's one conductor making Muse right for ten plus movies in the same universe. Yeah, it doesn't like draw attention to it self, but I think that says a lot because it just allows you to like really enjoy zay universe. Yeah, I think I would agree with you on Ray's theme, although I I like Kylo Ren's theme. I wouldn't say it's an improvement on the imperial March. But there's some fun themes. There's the there's the resistance march of the resistance, which is all right, but yeah, other than that, the race them. They get a lot out of that. But other than that it is kind of remember the force being remember the Han Solos theme, remember legging steet. So there's a lot of that. But again, I'm fine with it because it's your first movie and the the whole point of this movie is to just create new characters and set them on an exciting path. All right, part of you want to hear some final qualms I have. Let's hear it. There's the most obvious one, where, and this is a mistake star wars never fails to make, and that, with forty minutes remaining in the movie, there's the announcement within the star killer base and they're like fifteen minutes until we have enough power to launch or like to to use the machine again to blow more planets, and I really want one movie to actually like match up the run time of like occurring in in movie time of this. If they said like, Oh, I know, it's less dramatic. What if they said we'll be ready in twenty six minutes, I would at least compliment the movie for like being precise, because they do it again where they're like two minutes to launch and then and then there's like a fifteen minute fight sequence between ray and kilo and that. I know that that's a technicality, but it just frustrating. Well, there's kind of a fun...

...story the part of something. Tell me the pastory. Well, like, basically, for since our viewers have no idea, or listeners, I suppose, have no idea who I am, I should say that I'm a big Con Cruise Fan and I am a big mission a possible fan, hmm. And so I've listened to a lot of behind the scene stuff on that information, possible fall out. The climax of the movie takes place in fifteen minutes, or in movie time, fifteen minutes. There's a bomb that's going to set off in fifteen minutes, and so the like climax of the movie takes like half an hour, basically. And Director, writer, Director Christopher Mc Quarry for that movie said basically like we did versions of it where you we made it accurate or, like we said, like half an hour or whatever. And basically what you get with that is that they did versions because they did test audiences and whatnot. So they did a version of it which was accurate and a version of it which was fifteen minutes. And basically what they found is that when you make it accurate, if it's actually going to be thirty minutes or forty minutes, the audience basically goes, Oh my God, there's another forty minutes of movie. Yeah, and and and they start to like feel tired, whereas if you say fifteen minutes, the audience is going to all actually know. They're like Oh, all all these, all these pieces are about to fit together so nicely. They've got to wrap all up these all these loose ends up in fifteen minutes. How are they going to pull that off? They know like, intellectually, HMM, this has been way more than fifteen minutes, but because you've kept them on the edge, they're all right with it. So I don't really I used to take issue with that and now it really doesn't matter to me. I think it's kind of funny how, like every time the rebellion or the resistance attack, they come back like they come back like the winners, but there were always like so few survivors, like when they're coming away from the exploding star killer base. It's wanting falcon and five x wings, like that is all that's left of their army. So even though they just won this battle, like the losses were tremendous and if like, they would have really a hard time defending themselves from this point on. So it really seems like there must be a high turnover rate, because pretty much like ninety percent of the of the soldiers die at every battle. I agree as our two going to low power mode for Nope, fucking reason. Piss you off it. That was the one thing where I cannot really excuse it. But but he's sad that Luke left, but he's a he's a robot parth. I think that's the biggest, one of the bigger examples of they expected that to get explained by the future writer directors and it never did. Just then, like pushing off the responsibility of like this. That this like burden of exposition, and I don't understand why they did that. The point of it is that they only have a partial amount of the map, right HMM, and they can't access it until our two wakes up. Yeah, so then, but but it doesn't make sense because they wouldn't have been able to go to Luke anyways, like like the the star killer based stuff was all happening, so they wouldn't have had time to go to Luke and get him to come. So I don't understand why you have that structural thing of Oh he's in low power mode and then actually he's not, because it doesn't actually add anything and it wouldn't take away anything if you took it out. Also, nothing like activates him to wake up. Besides, like the screenwriter being like Oh, like, it's the end of the movie until it was convenient to the movies plot that it needed to be, that you needed to be turned on. Also, Luke, who wants to go into hiding because he's like renounced, like the Jedi way, and head doesn't want to be found. He returned because he's training Kilo and company and then and then, like kilo turns against him and then he's like all right, I'm gonna I'm gonna give up the the Jedi way. But he leaves a map to locate him in two separate parts. Bro Like just don't just just leave. None will find you if that's what you want. I never thought about that. Who made the map? Well, and...

...he would have had to like return and like drop it off with our too. And then the other piece of the map is just the old man at the beginning of the movie who said he found it and he doesn't explain how, and we don't know who this old white guy is. And and also, this is tangential, but when Kilo at the beginning of the movie, Kilo Captures Po and he's like, Oh, you know where the map is, so I'm gonna Capture You. But he just like off that old white guy when I'm sure that he was the one who had the flash drive. Maybe he could have been useful and said you, I don't know, like obliterate his body and true any although I don't know if they were trying to do like. He kills him in anger because he mentions Han Solo to him fair. Oh yeah, I guess that's probably good point. Part Way to go. What can I say? I'm just resmore, I know, and handsome. Well, you to Trent. All right, let's let's wrap this up now that we've resorted to compliments. It says that someone mentions that snoke is the one that seduces Kylo to the dark side. And do you think he did that? That they never come in contact. So did they just do the thing introduced later with like the like, the mind communication. And wait what? Okay, Leah says to Hans Han and lay are like pointed fingers, that who should accept responsibility for or who's fault it is that their son turned out to, you know, be even yeah, and Leia's like hey, don't like, don't worry. It was snow who seduced to Kylo, and I'm wondering how we went about that because once again it's not not explained. Yeah, I don't think that's a problem with this movie because it that isn't like revealed in this not even revealed. That's not meant to be a mystery, I don't think. But like it's not something that this movie's really dealing with. I think it's more of a flaw with its sequel. Yeah, what do you think of snoke? I thought that he was really big and like that was exciting. Is I was like, well, we've never we've never had a huge villain before. But and then as the planet is collapsing and you're like, oh, he's just he's just tell it. It's really funny because I remember in theaters everybody was like whole Lee Shit, he's huge, he's ginormous, and then when it's like the Hologram goes away, everybody was like Oh, okay, like you could hear everybody like Oh, it was too good. He couldn't have been that big. But you imagine, though, if they if he was just that big. That's like I've really wonder what they would have done. But like when that planet blows up, you do not see you don't see Kylo escape, you don't see huck's escape, but it blows up as soon as, like the Millennium Falcon and company get out of distance. So I think they needed one shot of like the essential staff evacuating, but just them not having that. You're not left to believe that they're dead because obviously they're going to be follow up movies. And who else? Who else are our protagonists going to face? Cor Antagonists that if they don't? Yeah, do you do have any any closing thoughts? Well, I guess we should just review. Give us a sinct review of what we think of the movie. We want to like rank it like a number, rating, like one out a ten. Yeah, all right, part would you like to go first? Okay, seven, okay, for an episode seven. Oh, I completely act, total coincidence. This wasn't planned on, rehearsally, unscripted. This genuine improvisation. Now you go. I think, think about probably take a except seven to an eight. I like this movie a lot more than most people like this movie. Right this was definitely my most enjoyable viewing in a while. I really like...

...there isn't much fluff, like every scene like has a purpose. Really like the Rathtar stuff. But that I wanted to speak about that that's the only action beat that I feel like eat. Every time that I watched this movie, I'm like this didn't need this. Yeah, but I like every movie up this point has like one scene where it's like, oh, there's a monster on the loose, like yeah, new hope. You've got like the trash compactor empire, got the the the the Jettie, and then they also also when Han and lay are in, Oh, in the case and things. Yeah, and they're in the giant space worm. And then in return of the Jedi you have both the the star like pit and the big what's that monster called in job's palace, sort of an our wrapped are rap. Nope, you don't know. I know this. I don't remember. I don't remember. Is it named Peter? Yeah, wait, let me up. That's Google. Oh God, this is so stressful. Rank or. Oh, I mean, I was. Yeah, we were. We were kind of right, but yeah, close, and I said something with an Ur, so we basically got it. Yeah, yeah, but, yeah, I agree that that was the one like unnecessary scene. But I was forgiving because I was like, Hey, the movies I like have things that aren't particularly yeah, like obligatory, but I think seven is a good is a good place for this movie where I enjoyed it. Not by no means my favorite star wars, but I think it's it's the best of the new trilogy. I will go on the record as saying that. I'm saying this into recording device and I'm not. I'm shamed. I suppose this is a segue for our end. But I really like this I really, really like this movie. I would even say I love this movie. I don't think I like it as much as I used to. I used to really used to be my favorite. Upon this Rewatch, I'm that's a kind of fine. That's two thousand and fifteen part. Yeah, well, I mean like even asis him today as long ago, is like a year ago. Like I used to say, like you know, that is my favorite star wars movie. But like now, we've just heard there's no longer blinded by the white exactly the familiarity stuff. I understand why it's there, but I can't not overlook it. So I can't overlook it now, but it's I would give it a seven to an eight and part just my favorite film, my favorite say seven point five. I gave it a seven and episode seven and a half. Oh, you should did there. But if we want to talk about my favorite film in the sequel trilogy, you're going to have to tune into the next week's episode. Part good segue on on our show craft services. Okay, by part by Trent.

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