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Episode 93 · 6 months ago

MANDY (2018) with Cinematographer Benjamin Loeb

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Parth and Trent discuss Mandy with its cinematographer, Benjamin Loeb. They also get a bit prickly with each other.

We are tonight's entertainment. You can't handle the truth. The fire risals pizza time. You're a wizard haring, so you know, you think that's are you're breathing moving. I don't have friends. So, Trent, so parth, hello, we have a podcast, so it's nice to see you. You're looking well. Yep. Likewise, what have you been eating? Just had some jar Joe's banana bread with a fork. I just when I'm done eating a little bit of it. Rather than put the fork way, I just like jam the fork into the banana bread, like I indent it and then I keep it there for later, and then it's just like banana red on the go. What would were you? I haven't had anything today, but last night, wait, that's against the rules. Well, I had it at twelve. I'm going to go JAM's, like past past midnight. I had domino's pizza and a lava cake from dominoes. Wait, the lava cakes from dominoes or like an underrated piece of Americana. I agree. There's nothing more American than having chocolate and chocolate some sugar on top, you know, and especially when it's following a large pepperoni pizza. Well, I guess not Pepperoni, not Pepperoni, but so she's yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what I've been having. Nice. And what is the the movie the week this week, because it's not like chronological to how these interviews occurred, you know, Sucher? Oh, yeah, it's not, and we don't do that a lot. Well, why don't we cue the intro and then let's keep them on the ropes. Let's have them figure out what's going to happen? You know what I mean? Wait, they already know what's going to happen. They've clicked on this episode. Yeah, exactly. Well, enjoy what the FS this is. Yeah, cute the INTRO. Welcome back to craft services, where we talk about the movies each week. We talked about a film and hope they have a remember of that. Pump to talk with us about their experience working on the picture. This week. Trent. Who Do we have? Benjamin Lobe, the cinematographer of such films as pieces of a woman, after Yang, when you finish shaving the world, and our film for this week, Mandy, which we talked about with him yes, and an interview when we interviewed him. You Remember? Yeah, no, I remember there's a few days ago and it was magical, mystical and a little scared at how good he was at an answering our questions. You know, yeah, concerned me all right. But yes, Super Nice Guy. Super Nice of him to get the donate some of his time talking about like some long takes one pieces of a woman. That was cool. A lot of Mandy talks about lens flares. It's not all like you know, his his daughter makes an appearance, yes, yes, and him running to go find a charger to I hope you don't, you don't edit that out. I already cut that part out. Well, that was like dramatic, though, and and in. I already edited this out because it wasn't very sonically interesting. You couldn't really tell what was happening. But while he ran to get his charger, we also saw his dog, and you could see that on our instagram also, did you? You were sniffling the whole interview. Did you edit out all your sniffles? I did. Yeah, yeah, I that guy. I tried to contain myself as much as I could,...

...but I was yeah, early in the morning. I was on the break of sex and your parth blow your damn nose, but I didn't want to do want folk, the bear. You know the bear. Yeah, no, that's what they call me. Now this, this is, this is this episodees to a smash off, to smashing start. So why don't we just queue the interview? Huh? Sure, and then, I mean, they'll see us again after the interview for a brief ideally, I breathe. EALLY, I stay till the end. I mean, how long is the interview? Something like forty minutes. That's cool, let's cut to it now. He the interview. Hello, everybody, and welcome to our interview with Benjamin Lowe. He's cinematographer behind such films as pieces of a woman after Yang. When you finish saving the world and our film for today, Mandy, thank you so much for being with us today. Thank you for having me. So just start off, what would you say your relationship with film was at a young age? It was my way out of academia. It was my sort of escape route from anything that had to do with school or tasks that had to be done that I didn't want to do. I think it's kind of a Cliche, but I started out with, you know, shitty skiing videos in my backyard and it's sort of evolved into, you know, like a sidekick course at high school where we were allowed to do other things than do homework, and I just figured out this was something that I was more interested in than everything else that I was doing. And how did you gravitate towards the Camera Department through that? Originally I think I was more interested in editing. I wanted to, you know, find a gig where I could sit in the place and sort of put together things that I figured out the edit room was a good place to see peace, peace and deal things together and I even started a I started a technical school in Norway after high school where I was like I'm going to be an editor. I want to I want to learn how to edit things together and be that, you know, be that sort of end of the train kind of person. And as footage came in, I was like, I don't like the way this looks, I don't like the way this feels like I can't edit this because it sucks. And again, no offense to any of those things, but I think end I'll be all. I was just I wanted to be in control of the way things looked and then at it and I still love the editing process and it's still something that I speak very highly of in terms of you know, I think it's a DEP's responsibility to understand the process of editing and understand pacing and those things in relation to blocking, but it was just sort of a natural transition from from the edit room into controlling what the footage look like so that you don't have to edit it. So what was the first real like film project that you worked on in any capacity? I guess in a camera department, or how did you find yourself on set? I think it was meeting like the first real like I've done a lot of you know, I did a lot of documentaries through high school and all these things, but nothing the first time I sort of felt like I was on an actual set shooting. It a short film. I think was my first year at this high like art school in Vancouver, where I met a friend of mine who wrote these scripts and I was like I want to work with you, and he wrote something called weight and it was a single take short film about a clown going to this birthday party and the whole film was just the clown hope trying to opening the trunk and get the balloons out, and the balloons essentially just float out and float up into the air. So it's like him on the phone trying to talk to this person who's booking another booking another Gig for him, and it goes terribly wrong and all the balloons float up and the camera tilts up and you just see the balloons leaving frame and that's it was a single take thing and I was like this is fun, like you can do things without editing if you're if the blocking is right. And...

...so how did you end up working on Mandy? My involvement in Mandy was a I think it was a little bit of a fluke in many ways. Like I've you know, I spent a lot of time in Vancouver were, which is where Panos is from, and he worked with a very good friend of mine, normally, who shot beyond the beyond the Black Rainbow, and in my mind there was always you know, norm is going to shoot Mandy and that's it. But what happened was many was financed by a Belgium, by a BA, a Belgian financing system where there was Ben Belgian money. So the film had to be shot in Europe and because it has to be shot in Europe. It needed, you know, European text like sort of text points or whatever, the way you break it up, and they needed a European DP and they had this Belgian DP who, sadly, was unavailable, or to my to my success, I guess, it was unavailable. When I said Bro you not so sadly for me. He broke his nakege broke his ankle and was suddenly available after a number of months, and at that point the other guy wasn't available and I think Panos, who knew that I was from Norway originally, he sort of just I just got the script in my inbox and call from Panos Saying Watch these movies, let's do this together, and twelve days later I was on, I was prepping. So before we dive into the film of the week, Mandy, your clown balloon long take reminded me of the long tape, the twenty minute long take and pieces of a woman, which I just watched the other day and you're also the DP of that movie and I'd love to hear about it. And you talk about blocking and that scene is all blocking. You know, starting as an editor, like I feel like there's a sort of got into position and sort of time of filmmaking were any DP can make pretty imagery and I think you know, in many ways I feel I feel really lucky to have been put in the positions that I have, with the directors that I have. But I will say there's something that interests me more than other things, and those are working with directors who you know. For example, Cornell comes from, comes from opera and theater, Cogonada from after Yang, started as a video essayist in academia, and there's something really really and again, like Panos, came up under his dad, George, and it's like one of those things where he his again, everybody has their own influence. That is sort of nuance from a different place and with pieces, I don't know, Cornell just gave sort of he was like this, you know, can this be a one take? Should we make it a one take? And like absolutely, like this is one of those things that really makes sense and you can bend time in a different way and you have again, shy of WHO's a method actor, who you know will deliver thirty good minutes, Vanessa, who's amazing. You know they're going to be and you create this environment where everybody, including myself, you're put in a position where every single movie you make has potential to destroy the entirety of the scene and the stakes are so high that I feel like there's a temporality to the process where what you do in this moment, being right or wrong, it's still impacts the whole, the whole. I like the whole scene in a way that is so like it's filled with adrenaline and that seems specifically was, you know, fun, fun to do that way. I'd never operated a GIMBAL. I didn't necessarily like Gimbals, but it was like I hired this dude who was supposed to do it. He messaged me a couple days before and was like, I don't feel comfortable with this, you should do it yourself then, and I was like I've I haven't held a Gimbal for thirty seconds, let alone, you know, thirty minutes. Nice. So again, I like, I like the challenge. How many takes do you think you're done on that shot, if you have any idea? We did. We did six takes and that was take four on day one. Well, wow, so it's like you got it and they needed two more for for posterity. You know, yeah, we got I don't know you as you think. Everybody's been in a...

...position where you you're working towards one specific element. You get you get that element sort of. You know, I think we're happy, but let's try to get it better. And at that point, as soon as you try to get as soon as you get greedy and you're like we're going to do better than this, you're you actually don't like that. That was it. And I've been in that position many times where you know there there's never perfection in that scenario. Like you can, you can try and work towards perfection, but you lose something else. We had takes that were better for camera, but performance. There's something that happens when it's immediate and before becomes, you know, to too much about, oh, the camera had a little bump here and which is not about in the end. I don't want to spoil it for anyone, but how did they turn the baby blue so fast, or did they have like a swap baby? There was a swap baby, but there wasn't that. But I will say that turning the baby blue was a part of vfx. We did not choke that we did not choke the baby. I wasn't accusing you part. Yeah, well, I was gonna ask about working with Panis and like what your guys is collaboration is like, what that looks like, both on and off set. Well, at the point of Mandy, when that came up, I hadn't I didn't really know panels that well. I knew his work and I knew the circle he ran in and we met a couple times on different things, but I didn't really know him. So I sort of went in knowing that penos has a has an imagination and a brain that most people don't like. Is His. He's willing to go to places that other people are willing to go and I knew that, no matter what I thought about the process, no matter how much I like the references are not, this would be an opportunity for myself to sort of shed my skin and and try something different. So I sort of went into the process like incredibly open. You know, I was a person who wanted to shoot, you know, Scandinavian social realism, and this is as far away from that as you get. So what kind of camera were you using on Mandy and if digital how did you achieve the film grain? I'll say this much. I wonder if I have it here. I think I don't the the Mandy script. I do Mandy screen playing by a Penas, because mothers an Aaron Stuart on story by Leonora Thor tour white draft first sentence. This motion picture is presented in sixteen millimeter at a more fhix cinemascope. Black screen silence. Now I read. I read that and I knew that Penos was like this. This, this film is on film. We're shooting sixteen. It's an amorphic. And then there was a bond company who financed the movie and they said, Fuck No, you're not shooting film because we don't trust you guys. So it was a bit of a we tried to push film for daily for daytime, seeing means and again, like I came in, I had ten twelve days of prep, preproduction before the movie started shooting as well. So I didn't have a ton of time to prep the film. So from the like, from the moment I read the script to the moment where we were standing on on like in product in the production office prepping until production was like twenty two days total. So I knew that I had to get into the head space of Panos as quickly as possible, understand the script as well as I can as quickly as possible and then adapt to the visuals as quickly as possible. I knew that film would take time, so I was kind of we were kind of an agreement that I think, under the circumstances, digital was the right way to go, and we ended up shooting on the Alexa mini with Premolanomorphix, which are the probably, in from what I know, like the biggest ennomorphics you can get there. They're incredibly beautiful and I really generally love the premo glass. But I remember we had a producer who sort of came up to me and there's a lot of there were a lot of nerves going around with with nick cage and...

Mandy and how crazy it was and how fucked up the schedule was, and I remember the producer coming up to me and was like been, if we can't make the schedule, you're going to have to jump in and go handheld running gun. You know that right? And I was like no, that's not a part of the language, like, that's not what Panos and I are talking about. And I wasn't trying to be an Asshole, but I essentially built the biggest camera I could possibly build so that putting it on my shoulder wasn't possible, and that's what we did. So what lenses are like? What like local lights? Yeah, what focal lengths were shooting mostly on? And do you have like a token, like grab the thirty five and go sort of thing? I don't remember. I'm pretty positive there was a thirty five, a fifty, seventy five or one hundred. We have a we had an optimal temper premo ten two one that I think became and became an Inginneur Zoom, the zoom we lived on quite a bit and I think between the thirty five, fifty and seventy five we sort of lived in that range for the most part. And then we had this beautiful twelve mill premo spherical lens that we use quite a bit. Like there's moments where we're in the the like the weird scientists place where the tiger is. The super wide stuff was on like the twelve, the ten or twelve bill. I think it was a ten mill premo. So it was a little bit of a mixture of different glass that we ended up using. And did you use story boards very heavily or was it a shot list or what was that? Parts of the film, parts of the film more story board and see, there's been a long time since I've seen this, but I I'm looking at them now, so I have I'm sure we're binding myself. They were. There were numbers of a number of scenes were story boarded and a lot of those scenes were specifically dealing with vfx or SFX elements. And then there was a lot of stuff that was not storyboarded, but stuff that had characters fighting or axes landing in people's heads like that stuff was generally broken down into imagery by a story bar word artist, but we use it more as a as a starting point for conversation more than anything. But parts of the film areas. And so, speaking about the Animorphix, we have some questions about like the Lens Fliers and they're like per in they very particular colors and we're wondering how you achieve that. The Prema and a morphicx tend to have a real like the pen division of a morphix general tend to have like a blue blue type of flare. A lot of it was built in. I remember on Day One panels that asked me to put like x amounts of filters in front of the Lens and I had probably like a chocolate like a chocolate one, and a couple of grads and an end nine. So there's probably four or so stacked in front of the Lens. And then he wanted a flare on top of that. So I had an m a team like ten feet from the Lens Shining directly into it full, full spot, and I think we just talked about it being like we don't have we don't have time to do this every single day in this in this way. But we ended up having a setup where I had like a head, a deto light that I would always have as a direct hard source for a flare and any in any scene, and then I had these like led light sticks that I would stick inside the I would put inside the matbox. So if there was like a soft if there was a soft push or light from from the right side, that I would put it on the right hand side of the Mat box. If it came from bottom or top, it would be bottom top. So I'd always try to motivate some kind of flare from the key side of our scene and then at the end of the shoot we we did end up shooting a bunch of plates. I shot some some player plates, and then so I'd say like seventy percent of the flares are in camera baked in. Fifteen percent of...

...the flayers were plates that we shot, you know, after wrap on set, and then we had another we had another session of shooting flares in Vancouver. Once panels had a bit of an edit and we were like, Oh, this shot is missing something. That's actually shoot a plate for the specific thing. So we would bake in a couple more things and I think the find that the final flares we shot on some lomos, so they have a slightly different esthetic. They're less blue and a bit more warm. But yeah, most of it was bake then. So another question we had was that so at the beginning in the forest there's scenes where it looks like the force is completely like green, like the light, and I was wondering how do you light a sequence like that that I assume was outdoors where you're where you have to fill up the entire scene with light, because there's a few scenes in this movie that are just like one very dominant color. So that how did you do that? I think originally, like again, I came in so late in the process that I was like I need to protect myself, and I think we had a two day tex scout and I just said I need a crane here and I lift here, and an eating cake here and here and here and here and here. And then after the text got I think the line producer essentially came up to me and she's like, Ben, you're a hundred thousand euros over budget. Where you going to do? I went to Panos and I said Hey, man, like, this is where I'm at. What what are you interested in? He's like, well, let's kill everything that's like connected to ambience. There is no moonlight, there is no ambience whatsoever. It's just make it dark and practical. So a lot of the stuff we started motivating off of like what's in the frame, and we're like Oh, these, these these car, like these cars have pretty nice tail lights. Let's start building that into it. And we did some testing with filters and I had this red filter that we really fell in love with and we sort of started thinking that we we'd really embrace these primary these primary tone specifically read. But I will say like we had moments where we had scenes that would go from you know, not like not naturalism, but you know, a normal context, into like a fire tone, into red and there were so there were moments I would essentially have a red filter on and I could light normally or for the red filter. There are moments where I would light just in red light and let the other things play as they were, and then there are moments where we had to transition between all, like all three of them in a way, and at that point it became you know, building in, building in light changes in queues and the lighting so that you could go from one setting to another sort of through DMX and just having someone operate that for me as the moment became the right moment. So did you have much or any involvement with the animated dream sequences? Not, not any more than Pinos explained to me what they were going to be and we shot. We shot elements or plates of some of them, but they became slightly different than I don't think all of them are even in the film at this point. So there's a scene where Mandy's laughing at the cult leader and it's got this weird like fading look where you can see. I don't even really know how to explain it, but I assume you know what I'm talking about, so if you could talk about it. Yeah, it's the moment like she's she's brought into the room through the hallway and that she sits down and he he unveils has his talk to her and she starts laughing. Right. I think we talked about all of those as like. I think I think the idea really came from the sort of blending scene where where the the the face morphing happens, where we like we penalty. I think he even wrote it in to the script pretty specifically and it became this thing where we wanted to create a feeling of like morphing and overlaying, but we wanted it to be be done perfectly in camera. So we had everyone...

...like, we had everything line up in the right way and actually have to wonder if I have it here. I need to remind myself what that looks like. Are you scrubbing through the movie currently? Yeah, we had so many different there's so many ideas in this film that it's it's been a while since I've talked about Mandy. For better or worse, I feel like the further away from it you get, the more the more you appreciate what it actually is. Do you feel like you like hate the stuff you make and like you hate to look at it like immediately after you make it? Are you able to kind of distance yourself? Awful, it's awful. So that never goes away. It never goes away. Yeah, I I love. I love this, like there's a main pedals talked about it, but I think the way that so the scene that you're talking about where he handbuils himself and everything that has like a it was shot with red light and there's there's a there's a secondary layer that is slightly slower than the main, the main action that is sort of drifting and feathering off, and it has a blue, blue tone, and I love the way that came out. I think it again, it felt different. But this is what I think is exciting about someone like Panos, because he might have ideas that are not translatable with words that are. They're in his head and he's able to do it in a way that nobody understands and you just have to be you have to be so all in and just keep staying on it, because I had I had moments on set where panels would ask me for something. I be like, panels, that looks like Shit, like we should do that. He's like just do it please. Okay, here it is, and I would do I would do whatever it was and I'd be like uh, kind of looks different. I like it. Let's go. Can you speak on the chainsaw fight? Like not one chance of a tow to chainsaws. You know, chainsaw me two chansaws versing each other. I want to Rewatch this movie now. Yeah, it was. I don't know if you know, panels had this little pitch, like not a pitch deck, but a pitch like a booklet that was sort of like the Mandy booklet. That was this is what the film feels like, which one of the main frames in that. If this is so fun, guys, I get to go back into many again. Look at look at all your old documents. Yeah, yeah, it's it. It's funny. Like I never, I never looked at that booklet being like Oh, I'm going to make it look exactly like this, but it obviously imprinted this very specific idea of what that feeling was and it again. It has these two characters with chainsaws with these two construction lights in the background and it feels very similar. What I can say was it's hard like we had a we had a stunt team that was really, you know, on and choreography and building this all out so that we can shoot it in a specific way. But since neither panels nor I are action driven people, it was again, there's a lot of nervousness going on it around the production and they were like you have to listen to these people and we need all of these elements to build it, and I think it was sort of for better or worse. I didn't like the idea of following the lead of someone who is in panels in terms of blocking for those scenes, and they were like you need these types of shots and you need the insert of this and the insort of that, and I totally understand that for any other film. So I kind of I don't know if I was slightly annoyed or I wanted to just add take on it. And because we had so little time and because the setups of the fight sequences, all of them in some way felt like, you know, any played wortal Kombat or Teken and you're sort of in this to d world and everything is like here's the world and now you fight. I was like, okay, cool, let's put three sides,...

...make it three dollies, and sort of approach it sort of like here is your level and now do it, and let's try and play with it. Let's try and play with it in a in a less sort of, I don't know, less try hard actually way and more like two characters go so like speaking of a shot or sequence of we're like you kind of just let it play out. The sequence where knick cage is breaking down in the bathroom after, I guess, spoilers for a four year old movie, Mandy dies. Can you talk about shooting that sequence? You know, Nick was always like on top of his game. He was always ready for anything. He was one hundred percent Gung Ho. You know, whatever we asked of him, he would do it, no question at no questions asked. And for this one, which was like a you know, Nick Cage, please go crazy. We want the we want the Ninjas, we want the crying, we want all of we want all of it in one scene, and you know he would get ready for this and he would, you know, and we had this leg gag that was kind of annoying where he walks into the room and turns on the light and this light has to turn off the moment he hits the switch. And I don't know what how we messed it up. We missed it up four times, I think, and each time, you know, he sort of to go in recent himself be like hey, fuck, like no now we were, comes back into the fuck and go back out again and again. And the time it worked, I think he'd worked himself so much, so, like we're, worked himself up so much that he was kind of pissed off. So the stuff that he was going to like his wife, was still he like his wife was dead and he pulled, you know, the stuff that he pulled out of the cupboards. Like the three other takes. You know, you just pulled him out in a slightly more controlled manner, and this time he was he somehow everything had like a reach that was like another seven feet further. So all the stuff that was thrown and pulled out sort of landed everywhere and we didn't notice that there was a piece of like a towel or a t shirt that landed on the Dolly tracks. So when you know, we're like, Oh shit, the lighting gang worked, like let's push in, and we push in and all of a sudden the Dolly stops and I'm like what's going on? And we roll and suddenly the Dolly goes back a little bit and tellword t shirt gets pulled off and we roll back over at that exact moment. is in like you sort of feel like it push us forwards and then it stops and there's like a little room and it was all by chance and a mistake, but it somehow is well. It definitely was the best performance and it definitely is the right take and it has imperfection in a beautiful way. It's crazy how, like fifty years from now, someone could be looking at that, at this movie, in like a film class, and then they're analyzing why you take that little pause in the middle and their think of all that artistic reasons. But it's a towel on the Dolly track, you know. Yeah, sometimes, sometimes it it's really really simple. So so, I mean you have you like grown to like love that moment and like you think it works, or do you like tense up whenever you see it because you want it to be like a smooth push in and you hope that people don't notice. I tend I tense up, but I also realize that, you know, I've, you know, leaving, leaving the set of Mandy, I was like, Oh, I wish we could have done this better and that better and I wish there was more perfection involved than Mr I wish it was cleaner here and more thought out here. And then when I think about it and you really look at you really talk about the references the panels had and what he wanted to achieve. And you know he had movies like days of Thunder, the Hitcher Shit, temple of Doom, fist of the North Star. I was like, these are movies that inherently Mandy's an homage to the S and s action movies, to bad taste, but done will done well and done with intention and intent. So I commend Pios for going to the...

...place that he went, because nobody else is willing to go there. And again, I think the movie is what it is because of the lack of prep and because of the lack of precision, that because of the lack of Altho. Some of these things so I feel like in some ways Mandy is exactly what it needs to be and wants to be. So I guess we're done with like Mandy questions, but I was going to ask do you think you have a particular style that you bring to every project or do you kind of mold yourself to whatever the project requires? I definitely had a style pre mandy. I had a style in a taste that I felt very strongly about and it was it was hard to shed that for Mandy in some ways, but exciting because I think I think Mandy kind of released it in a way where I realized that, as a DP, the last thing I want to do is to repeat myself and do the same thing over and over again, because at a certain point you essentially are are doing what you've done hundred times before and it doesn't change. So I like the idea of, you know, you build up tools and you have you this hypothetical backpack on your back and all the elements that you learned and you've been a part of their they collect in that backpack and you're able to essentially go into a movie. But what I do is I leave that I leave that backpack at home and I try and start from scratch, you know, putting pools into a new bag. So, like, I don't know, I think it's important to sort of start from scratch with any project and listen to the director and figure out what the vision and intention is and then build tools from scratch. And then once you have the sort of base, the base fund, like the fundamental understanding of what something is, then you start borrowing from borrowing from other films or other projects you've been on and start filling it out in a way. But I definitely, you know, obviously I have a taste and I have a style and I feel, like you know, over the last six seven years I've shot a number of projects where I have been challenged and put in positions that I've never been in before, and my goal now is to sort of find, find my way back into my own voice a little bit more. Not to say that I need to direct at all, but I want to find I want to work with people who have a distinct voice and a distinct intent, intention, where the process becomes how you know you, as a director and as a DP can explore those intentions and and bring something different to to a film in general. What would you say your style was like Premandy. I had like people made fun of me. I love shooting people's backs. I was like every shot is a person's back. Then why don't we see the face? And I was like, well, it's an interesting to not see the person's face. It's so it's nice because you see the person's back and you can envision the person's face and it's way better than seeing the face all the time. I don't know if I it's hard to describe the style, but it was I don't know, I was based in realism. It was definitely, you know, everything was motivated by realism. Many was a first time where someone said been, fuck motivation, just put it where it looks great. And I think you need you need a bit of both. I think in terms of again, in terms of taste, it's I don't know, I like to give an audience credit. Like I think you don't need to explain anything, and I think plucked, plot driven movies are somewhat boring and you're sort of spoon fed and led along the whole way, whereas all you want to do is be given a chance to sort of build things in your imagination a little bit sort of the same way as reading a book, where you you know the the images are in your head, and I feel like I don't know. I reach. I recently saw rewatch the mountain, brick Alberson, and watching the mountain, it's like any time a piece of information is about to be given to you, he cuts. You're like fuck, yeah, like thank you for not giving me the information, because now, like you built, you fill in the gaps and you always do, and it just becomes a much more participatory experience, giving the...

...audience credit and letting them think for themselves. Trent, I'm done with Mandy. Are you cool if I move on to okay, so you also shot movie after Yang, and I was wondering what that process was like. How what was like shooting out movie? I don't know if you guys have seen Columbus, like coming on his first film issue. Haven't? It is beautiful and wonderful and it's you know, I read. I read Mandy a sorry after you hang, and I was sort of trying to figure out what the script was, where it came from, and I saw a Columbus and I was like, Holy Shit, like this guy, this guy comes from a different place and sort of going back to this idea of letting people think for themselves and, you know, giving an audience credit and room and space to, you know, space for world building in their own mind. It was awesome. It's been a long time since I've worked with a director who is this sort of Zen and interested in the same things that as I am. Where it's you know, it's not about you know, I mean enough people who sort of goes. You know, I need to see the person's eyes, to connect with this person emotionally and at a certain point you just want to see a person far away from you in a different room and you want to see the context of how this person behaves and acts within the space. Hello, they can hear you, but you can hear them. I can't hear you. No, no, by rogue child. I only have one, but I have three in my house right now. No, it's again like he cooking, others has. This is this is my this is my normal life. You're like, as that happen on your work calls? Oh, yeah, all the time, all the time, and at this point I'm just you. I'm just used to it. It's sort of like nobody's physically included. Those moments in anything. So you guys should know. Oh yeah, no, yeah, I'm sure, but it's it was refreshing to talk to someone who thought about human presence and space in the same way that I did. Were you know, that makes up for a lot of the emotional disconnections that you don't get from a face or you know, it becomes a different conversation. So what are you working on now or what do you have being released next? If you're at liberty to say, I just we had the premiere of this movie called sick of myself, the premier to come this here saying program as after Youang in UN certain regard, which is directed by a guy named Christopher Bordley, who I personally think is an incredible director with a different approach to life and view on things. If you haven't seen a short films, they're amazing and specifically if you haven't seen ear eer, it gives you an idea of what type of person Chris is. But we made a movie in the Norway last summer. The premiered income. Hopefully we'll do it's it's rounds and then him and I are are prepping a movie called dream scenario in the US so that's our our next plan. Where's IT shooting? If you know yet? Well, it was supposed to shoot in La. It was I don't know, if I can't say, I probably can't, because it was. Well, it wasn't Adam Sandler movie, which I thought was would have been a fun but yeah, we were supposed to shoot in La and we were. We were in we were prepping where we were...

...supposed to go into prep and March and we were supposed to be. This is week for production. If we if we stuck to our schedule, but we lost Adam last minute, which was a bummer. Was it because of his I mean, I guess you don't know what. Was it because of the new like the guys that made on cut jams? Aren't they making a movie with him? They're making they're making a new safety movie. Yes, whole. So there's this. I don't know exactly what happened, but there's things happened. Dates did in the line after all. So we've been in recasting for a while and hoping to go back into production in a month or two. Cool. Well, part I do think it's time for the Big Huna, final question. Not Try. I think it's time to unleash it on Le Shit. So the Big Cahuna final question is just what's the last great movie you watched? And it could be a rewatch or a new viewing. Fly Away home. Wow, that was a such a quick answer. Usually our guests are like dying at this. Watch it. I watched it yesterday and it's good and it was like it's great, it's it has Jeff Daniels trying to figure out how to get ducks to fly south. I'm like, does it get any body? I grew I grew up with the I grew up watching the black stallions. I've always had a bit of a soft spot for these films. But no, if I'm dead serious, the last great movie I saw was a weight White Day. It's an Icelandic movie called Vito Vit the dog. The director is a video artist from Iceland who also made a movie called winter brothers and as a new movie coon this year called Gold Land. And they're not many filmmakers today that are still able to make films that I feel like, sort of have a place and get a gallery setting or has a different type of attention to the cinematic and to the cinematic language in a way that I don't know. I become really inspired by this stuff and I find anyone who is able and willing to sort of challenge the film medium and the way we think about the film medium it's special. So White, White Day probably is my my last greatest watch. Awesome try. Do you want to close us out? Sure. Thanks so much to Benjamin low. He's been the DP behind such films as pieces of a woman after Yang, when you finish in the world, in our film for this week, Mandy, I thank you for a time. We really appreciate you. Thank you for having me after number, number, a number of emails back in force trying to figure out when, Oh, part, is the email he'scheduling. God. Well, I'm glad our schedules aligned. Yeah, thank you for doing that. It's always it's always nice to talk to good humans who are just generally interested. So thanks. We like to pride ourselves on being good humans. Yeah, you seem like a human being yourself, you know. Yes, well, back from the interview, just like yeah, yeah, for you guys there was a forty minute pause and between in a whole interview, but for Trent and I I just after I said Q, The interview. I just immediately said welcome back. Yeah, it's sort of like a jab and me like you don't want to, like you're ready to be not recording anymore. Was it's only because Trent has sixteen minutes of recording time. So I don't want to make better. By this point. We're guys. By this point, I only have ten minutes for meaning, but you could take your time. That's my bad. That's my bad. I...

...mean we, one of us, would have to get shot with the shotgun for the remainder of this episode to last ten minutes. Then we just have to keep rolling because that if we were shot. Oh okay, yeah, I was going to say someone shot us. With one of us with a shotgun, I'd say the end interview was done, one of us would be ideally over to the other's house to help. Yeah, or calling nine hundred and one one, I suppose. But don't you think that would be like the most engaging thing that's happened on our show? And when you put it that way, you should be running over here to get my audacity file if I'm the one that gets shot, so that we have that, you know, and not just the the the lower quality mpthree. You want the way of file? Yeah, I want. Yeah, give meet the wave file, give me that uncompressed file. You know par so, are we at Liberty to disclose what movie comes next or like what? I know that we're doing the Mandy discussion with friend of the show Jackson Clark. Yeah, he's making his fourth appearance on the show. We just keep doing movies that he feels strongly about. Yeah, except for like edge of tomorrow, which was sort of just a celebrity visit, or defy bloods. I don't think he cared that much about that movie. Yeah, we were just early on those are he's our first guest ever. Yeah, wow, but next week we're doing our discussion with Jackson Clark. The week after. I don't want to boil because it hasn't it's happening tomorrow this interview. Yes, so you can find out what it is next week, but let's just say we hope you feel the need for this interview. So is that? I mean, I have to watch that movie, but tomorrow. If you could watch it today, would be great. I mean, I guess you don't strictly need to see the movie, but it would help. There you go. You see transmission was to get me to watch the movies before the discussion, and now that I've gotten to do that, I think it's only fair that I asked Trent to watch the movies before the interviews. Yeah, it is. Wait, can is Jordan there? Jordan was supposed to make an appearance on this intro drawing. Is the end of the episode? You want to come on? Just say hi, speak to the people. Hi, parth. Hello, Jordan, the the humble loyal listeners of craft services. Yeah, Jordan. Do you want to close this out? Yeah, like, what do you recommend? Like, how should I do it? Should we go? And just where? where? where? Where can you listen to us? Hint, it's apple podcast, spotify and Amazon music. Just hint, hey guys. You can listen to us on spotify, apple music, apple podcasts, or wherever you get your pocket or ever, or wherever you get your podcast. And should they rate or show? And you guys should really run, you try and you should settle down and let your woman do this. Okay, you should rate the podcast. How many store five stars? Preferably. Should they leave a review or just like this is so dense. Um, yeah, you guys should leave a review. Rate at five stars. You know, do all of the Nice things that you would do to a podcast that you really enjoy. Yeah, no, for sure. And like if they wanted to follow our social media, we go. If you want to follow this, there's a twitter and Instagram, a facebook. No, you had the those are the only two. We're not that SMART, right anyway. So you could follow craft services on twitter and Facebook, at craft services, I guess, source the PODCAST, craft services podcast. Yeah, I'm so sorry. No artist ever listen to one episode of episode. Well,...

Jordan, well, now now it is. But yeah, but, but, before I would have assumed that your a craft service is connoisseur. But it's interesting. What that sode of craft services are you going to come on for? You're going to be the celebrity, the CEBODY. Guess I'm going to be the celebrity guest on a on a podcast, for an episode, for an episode of the Podcast, for a movie that I genuinely like, preferably Maholland drive, if that's possible, or once upon a time. and Oh, yeah, cool, yeah, yeah, yeah, well, there might be some interesting Develot, there might be some interesting see what he can do. There might be some interesting developments in the Jordan coming on the show field, but really, yeah, no, but we'll say yeah, but stay tuned and in the meantime, rate the show five stars. Boom, right, boom. CRAFT SERVICE HAS IT OUT.

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