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Episode 43 · 1 year ago

JUDAS AND THE BLACK MESSIAH (2021) Discussion with Pablo Garcia

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Parth and Trent, known hoodlums, refuse to take the advice from friends and family alike begging to "cancel the podcast." In protest of this, we've recorded another discussion about another film.  

Edited by Trent Algayer

Sir Pablo, what have you been what have you been eating most recently? What have I been eating? What haven't I been eating? Oh, so true. So riot, I had a big fat, messy, sweaty Burrito. Today's you're a lot of adjectives. So it's sitting heavy in my stomach, in the pit where this movie affected. WHO, wait, why? Why was the Burrito described as sweaty? Where did it come from? It's a hot day today, not appropriate burrito weather. Did you prepare? Did you prepare it yourself, or is it from a third party distributor? I did. I made some butternut squash cheete, because you're a big old Vegan, right old feet. Yeah, who haven't lost your VK guard? Uh, Hey, still got it, Parthi is the joke is that part hasn't had sex. That's a thank. You say about like intercourse part. You got to have intercourse, Bra telling you that seems like a really infutrt informed description. And what did you Trent? What did you what? What did may eat? Save this me? I was at work and at the at a restaurant and all the cooks are Hispanic and they said, Yo, wit man, you want watch it? Yeah, I know they said, hey, we're ordering tacos. You want us to order you some Tacos? I said Fuck Yeah, Trent, this is going this is going good. Places. Do you not sell Tacos? Where do they get their Tacos? Because I've been in white people tacos my whole life. So let's they were. Let's get the information from the source. Part, what about you? Thanks for asking, Trent. I had I made a meatball sandwich for myself. My mom bought French bread, I think from Shop Right. I'm not sure, but they bought French bread and they were like you should make yourself a nice little sandwich for for lunch, and then I did that. It sounds right. If the materials and you will. Yeah, I had to heat up the meuballs. Yeah, well, I ate fresh. Guys, are we gonna dress the elephant like the slave in the room? The Red Shirt pod. So I know this is mean. I know this isn't a visual medium, but both part and Pablo came into the call wearing matching red tshirts and then I put on an equally red tshirt. So this marks our first red shirt pot. But Pablo's red shirt is due to his employment at target. Yes, it is. Parthen eyes are unrelated to target. All right, should we cut to the INTRO? Yeah, that a thing we want to do. Or got more band? I couldn't know. I'm like done. I'm always having to create these fucking transitions for trend. Wait, let's move, let's let's move. My God, from smalltalk Banter, I'm going to kill myself. Judas in the Black Messiah Banter. Welcome back to craft services, where we talk, our show, where we talk about the movies. Each week we discuss a film and hopefully have a Cremember of that film to talk with us about their experience working on the movie. Last week we talked with Sam Lassenko, the production designer of what movie is this? Judas in the Black Messiah? And it was two weeks ago. Because first circumstances entirely within our control, we we couldn't, we couldn't release this discussion last week. This is true, but now here we are, a week later. You've over we've overcome the adversity and here we are in our matching red...

...shirts, ready to pot again. Like you can't see these, but know that we're all red shirted. We're like a stop light. That's impossible. To get by. Does this movie have a synopsis? Good question. offered a plea deal by the FBI. William O'Neil infiltrates the Illinois Chapter of the Black Panther Party to gather intelligence on Chairman Fred Hampton. This movie was nearly called Jesus is my home boy, Trent. This had a budget of twenty six million dollars, did it not? Yeah, and it made six point three million dollars and box office. But Times were tough and there is a, you know, a global issue happening. No further details on that yet, but HBON Max released it for you know, they did their two week trial period thing, and so that's why it only made so much money. Part this movie was nominated for five Oscars and it won one of them. There's nominated for best original screenplay, best supporting actor, times to Best Picture and cinematography, and Dana Klue is the only person who won. And this film has the ninety six on rotten tomatoes, which is that's pretty good. A little bit. Yeah, no, it's it's very good. It's kind of so good that it's a little confusing, Trent. Shall I give production history? Kenny and Keith Lucas began pitching the idea of a Fred Hampton biopick to a hundred twenty four and Netflix in two thousand and fourteen, selling it as the conformist meets that departed. While working with Chaka King on a television pilot in two thousand and sixteen, they pitched their idea of for this movie and he became intrigued. Will Burson, a screenwriter, also had written a Hampton screenplay about the same time and it was in early stages of production, with F Gary Gray and talks to direct Casey Affleck and John Powers Middleton and negotiations to produce and Jaden Smith and Osh Jackson Jr being eyed to portray Hampton. That version ended up falling through, so person and king rewrote his script with the help of the Lucas brothers. In February two thousand and nineteen, Daniel Kluya and La Keith Stanfield were announced to have joined the cast of the movie, with Ryan Cooler producing and Warner brothers distributing. Principal photography began in Cleveland, Ohio October twenty one two thousand and nineteen and lasted for forty two days and ended on December nineteen. Two Thousand and nineteen. Kristen sprague began editing the movie in January two thousand and twenty, prior to dozens of studios being shut down due to covid nineteen, and this resulted in crew members working remotely during post productions. Fun Facts. Trent, let's go Judson, the Black Missiah was the first film with all block producers have been nominated in the academy word both picture category. Director Shaker King's second feature film since newly was two thousand and thirteen, his feature film debut. Like kid, stanfield went to therapy after portraying William O'Neil Chaka. King describe the initial idea as that a padded inside the world of Counterintelligence Program Quick Sidebar Parth, does our show have any weight? We departed right, wink, wink. That aparted trying. I have no clue what you're talking about. Yeah, wink, wink. Interview the departed in several months. With this film, Daniel Kolua becomes the first black British actor to Receive Multiple Academy Award Nominations and, as of twenty twenty one, the only one to win the Oscar and an acting category. Danna Colou in the Keyston field were portraying the roles at thirty one and twenty nine respectively. However, Fred Hampton was only twenty one and William O'Neill was just seventeen. And in reality it is unknown if William O'Neill spoilers support. Yes, an official spoiler alert, but also it's kind of weird if you're listening to the pot of that haven't seen the film. Go check it out. It's pretty good. Yeah, they don't know if William O'Neil was actually the one who poisoned Fred Hampton. And last fun fact, which is the least fun of the facts, William O'Neal was found dead on January fifteen, one thousand nine hundred and ninety after running into traffic on interstate ninety.

He was forty years old through his death. Those death is ruled a suicide. His wife claimed that it was incidental. You mean accidental, Trent? Accidental? Will O'Neal tried another suicide attempt before the crash, or he stopped from jumping out a second story window, though his uncle claimed that he was filled with guilt for work in the FBI. O'Neal claimed in several interviews he had no allegiance to the Black Panther Party. Might have to make a different category for that fact. It can just be called fact, fact, if can just be called fat, because there's fun, all right, so speak. Speaking of segments of the show, what comes next? That would be three star reviews, my favorite segment. Wait, Shit, I think you've gone three, three one stars. Yes, yeah, I fucked up here to give us our first onestar review. We have. Who Do we have? Do we have anybody? Or No? Pablo grows see, a friend of the show. Guys, I'm Pablo Darcia, friend of this show. First we have from aunt Munios. What website is this from? This is from Amazon. Amazon, he headline. I didn't even watch this movie, so you know it's going to be relevant. The only option is to buy for a one thousand nine hundred and ninety nine. No, thank you, by John McKay, and he says racist movie towards White People. Third Review, this is by D space. Are from two months ago. Sorry, enough already. Yes, we want African American history, actress of color and films. Today, however, some originality. Please think Green Book and Oscar Worthy Performance. Yep, isn't that ironic? Yeah, I mean, I I think Green Book Is. Is That not a universally beloved movie about the African American experience? Or my mistaken yeah, there were a lot of other reviews that were just like yeah, I don't like this movie because socialism, or I don't like this movie because black people, and I was like wow, really, it's kind of crazy to me that you watch this movie hating black people before and thinking that this movie would change your mind. Well, I think people like the green book because it has like the not all whites narrative. That's that's it makes. That's very comfortable. People say like if I, if I was alive back then, I wouldn't have been one of those people. They probably wouldn't. This is true. Should we get into our thoughts? Yeah, let's Pablo. You just had your first viewing, yeah, yesterday. Did you find it through a savory Internet resource? Did you pay the twenty dollars, like some of our reviewers weren't willing to? I just I just don't think that this bad boy is available for rental yet, so I'd imagine you might had to dig through some of the seed your parts of the Internet. Well, the car in front of me on the highway was playing it, so I watched it through my I say to the windshield, my windshield. Yeah, wait, you can tell us that you actually saw it. I didn't. I didn't get all of it, but I get the gist. So, like they were playing it on their drop down mini van dvd player and you just had to follow them through traffic so you could, so you could try to piece together plot points. Yeah, and you think you had, you have a firm understanding of of everything that went down, both Judas and the Black Messiah. I'm really good at reading people, so I think, yeah, I did. It was more seeing the emotions body line with the people's faces through the rearview mirror and then translating that into into a narrative arc. Huh Wait. So part did you view the film in a similar fashion, or more like on your laptop? I watched it on my laptop. So, Pablo, what did you give give us your give us your initial thought. Bots what would you think? So I have two prefaces. First of all, I am a sophomore film student, so my opinion should be taken with a grain of salt. Also, I have a lot of difficulty processing historical dramas just because you can't really criticize...

...what happens, you can't really criticize the characters. Well, it just becomes much harder to because this is something that really happened. So, all that considered, with my research of the movie, I enjoyed it. I thought that it's really useful as a tool to get people to learn more. I would say that I had trouble with some of the editing decisions. I don't know, I just felt that things happened very objectively. There really was no defined character. I felt for a lot of the cast wouldn't want them to have invented characters for them necessarily. But this kind of gets into territory where I don't quite trust historical dramas because they often do inflate events or just like make shit up. From what I from what I read the the only major thing that was change was like the shootout out, but but not even like the Black Panther headquarter shootout. was just like the shootout with the one guy getting chased by police later on, where s Samualsenko was like, yeah, that just didn't happen. I mean it happened. It was like much less dramatic than it was like the steam yeah area, but he said with like the Fred Hampton assassination, it was like everything about the house was like I did. Yeah, I read even like the stuff that the cops were saying was apparently verbatim to what was testified and court when they went by. You sure? You're saying, though, about how it's kind of hard to find things criticize when it went and know if it says that they went to great length for historical accuracy, and then you're like, all right, then I'm just insulting reality or I'm saying that they portrayed that I don't like the character based on the person who I paid money to go see, which, you know, it's not that. It's not the filmmaker's problem for, you know, portraying it accurately. I see your point about they're not being necessarily developed characters for every part person in the cast. That's maybe one of the things that and I really like this movie. This is probably one of my what I place it like number four on the best of the year list or something like that. Number for yeah, so I really, I really like this movie, but I guess my one issue with it is that sometimes I felt like there wasn't I felt like there wasn't a clear protagonist in what was going on. It sometimes felt like I wasn't. It's pretty clear that Lakid stanfield's character is supposed to be the protagonist, but you spend so much of the movie not with him. Is that why Daniel Klia and look, he's Stanfield, we're both nominated for best supporting actor. I think what it was was a combination of potentially that, but also that Daniel Cluyah, the Keith Stanfield, had a better chance of winning in the supporting actor category well, because we all thought Chadwick Boseman had that thing locked up, although he let little did we know? Yeah, so, I mean I kind of agree, like I if I had one flaw, it's that sometimes I felt like I didn't know who was leading this movie and it was like going through the events sort of. I mean I think Daniel Kluya is my favorite part of this movie. Everybody gives good performances, but I think his Oscar is incredibly well deserved. I leave. It'd be very easy for a movie like this to sort of portray what I'm trying to say is I like how much empathy we're given to this character and that he's not just portrayed as just the leader. We sort of see him fall in love a little bit and, you know, we see him the the struggle between fearing for his life and how much...

...that should take a part in his actions versus his work for racial equality. There was a few times during my initial viewing of the film more you know, it's cutting back and forth so many times and and like there's so many side characters and I was like, who is this? Who? How does it connect to our main storyline? How? How does it connect to the title characters? I know it's some some Black Panther thing, but that part in this is me sympathizing with your comment that I was like, Whoo, who are we? Who are we following here? What? What are we doing exactly? Like I know that these things happened, but why are they? Are they really important? That's kind of what I was talking about with the with the editing, because you know, one minute we're at the the rally and he's giving this in passion speech and then it's him with Deborah. Yeah, yeah, and you know they're having passionate dialog. I just kind of felt like this film juggles a lot of storylines, but it doesn't always necessarily lock all of them down. So I actually can't imagine the film without the Deborah subplot, though, oh no, I'm not saying it shouldn't be there. I just think all the only scenes that he has with Deborah feels feel purposeful or like in the way that it like the narrative needs this to happen, like now we're going to have the talk about your son, now we're going to have the talk about I'm not saying that those shouldn't have been there. I just feel like their relationship is very, I don't know, not terribly explained. I kind of feeling. I kind of I kind of agree with you, because it kind of feels like our character exists as a function of moving along the plot, almost where her only scenes are the ones where it's necessary for her to either give exposition or like emotional exposition so that we understand where his mental state should be or whatever, and that's kind of like. I I don't know if this is a commonly shared belief, but I kind of cared way much more about Fred Hampton story, because I don't know if it was the performance of the writing, but I felt like that stuff was way more interesting, and so I was a little underwhelmed because I wanted more of that and I thought that the real main story is happening with him and that was the stuff that was really interesting, because he's the one that's actually sort of pushing this movement along. And I think maybe what it could have been is it felt like it was going for a dual protagonist type deal, but I felt like you didn't get it. Somehow. You didn't get enough time with either one of them for them to be considered like two halves of the same story, if that makes any sense. I agree. Also, the Jesse Plemmons talking like with FBI Asians when like Keith Stanfield isn't around, feels terribly far away. Yeah, like I know that it's a it's a necessary way to to convey exposition as to fbis is the is the villain of the story and you need to get you yeah, you need to get their perspective, but it's like where we were like three degrees of separation away from any of the main characters. Yeah, and I mean I guess I see what they were trying to do with like even though this guy is obviously bad, he's even he's not sure about how far he's supposed to go with that stuff. But at the same time it kind of makes me feel weird, only because I feel like that screen time could have been used for another Fred Hampton scene or something like that to give him or his wife more depth. Just I thought they were like yeah, because I feel like they're trying to give him complexity, but they don't give him much complexity beyond he...

...feels kind of bad about the things he's doing. He really maybe doesn't need. I was just going to say it seems like they're laying the groundwork for Jesse PLUMON's character to like come around eventually, and he has like some glimmering moments, like when he I guess in hindsight he was like doing recon or whatever, but when he's like the one white guy in the Black Panther rally, he's clapping along and you know, I thought that he was. I thought this was the turning point for his character and then it was like Yo, draw me a diagram so I can assassinate your friend. He was there to taunt like Keith Standfield. I felt, yeah, like I didn't. I don't believe for a second that he was there. I didn't. I didn't think that they were trying to show, like set the stage for I never got that impression, but I did get the impression that they were trying to give him some moral gray area. But they don't. It's a weird matter because I don't think the movies trying to do a green book type thing where white people are just complex, they're not racist. It like. I don't think that's what they were trying to do to exactly like. I don't think that's what they were trying to do. But the problem is that there's not enough screen time or stuff given to him to make him a complex character and even within the function of his role in the movie, it doesn't really add that much to his character to be more complex. He's got a son and little league, Little Samantha's nine years old. Going into this film very similar to the departed. I was expecting something of an action film and it included like maybe one or two scenes of real action and the rest is people talking in rooms, which I'm down for. But if you see the trailer for this movie. It seems pretty freaking intense. I mean I was I was pretty down for it because I feel like this is a type of I mean, I feel like we've been harping on this movie a lot, but, like, I do like this movie a lot. I'm glad this movie got made because it's a type of movie that I hope beyond like historical drama, just in terms of mid budget movies that are about adult material. I feel like you don't see as many of those that are really good and I thought that this was very well made. I thought it was really well shot. I thought, you know, just a well produced adult movie, if that makes any sense, but also just, you know, as a modern biopic about a black about a black historical figure who wasn't Malcolm X or Martin Luther King. You know, like it's just nice that those are allowed to happen now because, you know, I heard Fred Hampton's name and you know, I went to public school, so they never elaborated on it, but I feel like this was a valuable story that needed telling and I would hope, you know, there's a biopic about every white man who's ever lived, so I would hope that there are more of these. So, as we said, I think it was Daniel Cluia is thirty one. In the Keith Stanfield is twenty nine and I didn't realize until the end where in text it says that he was seventeen when he became an informant for the FBI. I didn't realize he was seventeen and I and this is a case where and La Keith standfields great in the role and in the movie it's good, but I think having an actual seventeen year old and Daniel Cluya is even better. So I don't know if I'd really want to recast him, but getting people that were younger would really help to show the like utter ridiculousness of the situation, because when you have la Keith Stanfield, who's a grown man, being coerced into becoming an informant, that's a very different situation than is seventeen year old...

...being becoming an informant, and I think that getting somebody younger would show, you know, the power structures were not equivalent. I mean you kind of already get that, but showing yeah, they're their kids, I mean they don't, they don't really have any ground. That they're standing on. They try to show it through dialog, just in the first scene where his hat gets knocked off and he and, you know the members of the game like Hey, he's just a kid and in the theater, not knowing that he was supposed to be seventeen, I was like no, he isn't. Yeah, yeah, I mean I agree. I know there's a lot of controversy over the casting. Like, while I do think that they did a great job, this does also perpetuate like how the media or trays like black kids as older, you know, or they try to get you to serve the sentences and stuff like that. So unfortunately, I guess it kind of perpetuates that. But I mean it's obviously not the intense. So so I was listening to a good fellows podcast the other day and it isn't said in the text of how old the movies characters are, but they were talking about how old the, you know, the members of the gang were in good fellows and they're all in like the early s, and then they were like well, Joe Peshew was forty and because of that discrepancy it ruins the whole movie for me and I think that good fellows can get away with it because it doesn't say in the movie, Hey, this guy, who's clearly a middle aged is a teenager. As far back as I could remember, I always wanted to be a gangster. And it's also not dealing with gent like like like three white men. That's a they're not dealing with racial politics or anything like that, that you're dealing with gangsters and and it's like, I don't know what has the age of the people has a lot more weight exactly when they're when they're being coerced by the FBI and their chill. I think it's less of a problem with Fred Hampton and it's more of a problem with for sure, with because I part they couldn't agree with you more. That just like it's easier for my brain to understand the lot like his his his like, you know, his internal conflict when he's a child exactly, because it's it's I remember as one as once they said that he was seventeen. That changed everything because it was like, while watching the movie, I was like yeah, but like it's kind of a Dick I mean it's kind of a Dick move. I mean I understand that he's doesn't have much, but he's an adult, and then finding out that actually no, he's actually like legally not one changes your perspective on things. Also, it like it own. It functions weird because I'd say, if we're picking a main character, it's Judas and you're definitely supposed to empathize with him, but at times when you're rooting, you came to see the movie, so you're rooting for the Black Panther Party to succeed and like, I don't. It makes you not like him because you know he's going against their objective. I gotta say, for the longest time I was really disinterested in his character. I mean, like I could tell that by the end he was probably going to regret what he did, but for me it was just yeah, it was a grown man doing some really shitty things, and like when he's eating steak and just taking the money and laughing, I was like, this guy fucking sucks. And I feel as though the movie ends up kind of just dunking on will O'Neil. Dunking is not the correct word, but when I think of what the movie is doing to educate me, it's that this happened and will O'Neil was a really shitty person. There's nothing in there that allowed me to realize that...

...he was that young and coerced. I mean it's, you know, it's just so much easier than there were a lot of reviews and they were like, we don't like the depiction of the police in this film, and I was like, I don't I don't think this movie is really for you. I feel like what's what? What would they want different? I feel like if you love the police and then, with that being said, you aren't huge on minorities, and then you would really enjoy getting to watch all the police kill these minorities, because if you like the police, and clearly that's what you want, I feel like people who their issue with it was the depiction of police are just kind of beyond help. So, yeah, their opinion is not really see valid. But I saw numerous reviews that were upset at kind of like the whitewashing of the Black Panther Movement, which I'm not an expert, but I don't know. I think some people wanted it to be more about the Rainbow Coalition and about like educating, because the point of this seems to be education. This movie and a lot of people were thinking, you know, does this function? Is it engaging enough that people will actually want to research what happened, or does it play kate the audience, which I thought was interesting. I probably wouldn't go so far as to say it play kates them, because there's not really I wouldn't say that because there's no real closure at the end, but the things that happen do seem to be represented as things that just happened Chicago's most segregated se what we need to change the black bad beyond and a young pig just a fold it away. Well, governation breath rather than because I like it that at the very least, the movie doesn't do a this is so horrible, this all happened in the past and you can remove yourself from it. I kind of like that because it gives one movies do that. It gives a false sense of progression in like keep real. It's look at how far we've come, the green boat. Yeah, exactly, and so I kind of like that. I think there's something interesting to be said about the whitewashing the Black Panther Party in the movie. I don't think I'm the person to say anything about it. I mean people are saying, because it was released through Warner brothers, that there were probably sacrifices that had to be made just because it was a large studio with probably a white man at the helm, with what stuff like that. It's a little difficult because it's like I'm sure there were, but I feel like this is as strong of an indictment you're going to get on this level for now and until and I mean that's the I guess that's what they're critiquing. Yeah, I'm not the person to speak on this. Is is probably what's best. The best way I can say it. Totally. This film reminded me a lot of black clansmen. MMM really, I this mansman was way more of a funny like it was meant to be more comedic than black clansman. Oh well, black black clansmen definitely got rid of that tone by the end of mean, when things got serious. I don't know, what would we say? Is The more successful? I mean, is it fair to compare them? I don't know. Reach the Colorado Springs Chapter of the Ku Klux Klans. Please weave a message and God bless White America.

WHO This is Ron stalworth calling sorr your advertisement in the Colorado Springs Becausette, I'm interested in receiving some reading materials from I mean, I think, I guess they're both movies about social justice in terms of like racial, social dust social justice. But I think about attempting to tell untold stories. They are, but I think, I mean this is an actual untold story and Black Klansman as a fabricated untold story. I thought, yeah, I thought it was based and it's based, based on a treet is based. It's based on a true story. It is not a true story. There was a Ron Stalworth. Basically the entire third act is all fabricated. That never actually happened and lots of elements of the story are disparate elements of real APP reality that were cobbled together to make that an also, it should be noted, and I like Spike Lee a lot, but it should be noted that that movie got, I think, two hundred thousand dollars by the NYPD. So when it comes to funding of the movie, I'm a hundred percent sure there were things that were toned down, and I mean the movie kind of that movie kind of ends with a you know, it's also meant to be an uneasy ending, but it also is like Oh, like, I'm going to try to solve things from the inside. I didn't know that police departments from major cities had space in their budget. Yeah, it's a fun movies. Like should I knock on the Middletown police department store and be like, I've been working on the short film. You guys are going to love it. It'll have to be propaganda or COP Ganda, but sure you could. I don't think black ICEMAN was COP Ganda. Yeah, I wouldn't say necessary. I would say like, unfortunately, it operates through the Police Department virtuously, but it definitely isn't pro cop. Yeah, yeah, after I leus just like it as it stands as an institution. Yeah, after, you know, the recent black lives matter. I mean just the general public looks at the Police Department such a different light and it's kind of weird, like watching, you know, detective movies, because you're like, I don't because you wouldn't think that detectives would be the perpetrators of these hateful acts, but you're like no, no, you're your police officer too, and now I can't watch seven anymore and to make me sense. I mean you still can. I can think it's one thing to movies are of themselves a genre of movie in terms of, like there's a murder and someone has to solve it. It's interesting to see where that goes in terms of how people view cops as a whole. But I think the genre itself also generally involves the cops can't get it done. Some outside investigator has to solve this. It's very rarely or like someone off the books or something like that, and usually the police are kind of a roadblock to the detective, exactly like you're in our ten board. But yeah, I saw some review of this movie that was like that called out that one cop that had a Brooklyn accent. Really, I was pretty funny. IS THE PROBLEM BECAUSE THEY'RE IN CHICAGO? Yeah, that's fair. Well, have we have we come toime? Has it come time to rate this movie? Trent Pablo? Yeah, I feel like we haven't said really a whole lot of positive things, but, as you're thinking about to find out in the rating section, we really like this film. Or I don't that. No, I mean I think with this it's difficult because it's, like I really liked it, but the things that I liked there's not so much to say about. It's like it was directed well, it was shot well, the actors were really good and it was, for the...

...most part, written pretty well. One minor element I wanted to speak on was, I don't know if it would be considered the score or the soundtrack, but there are some needle drops and some you know, just like background of like of like a bass string going. That, I think, our most beautiful HMM. And I didn't want, yeah, I didn't want to leave the pod without mentioning them. Yes, Babla, I'm going to do it like film club. I. What did you guys think about the callback edits? Like remember this guy like when he sees the guy who saw him attempt to steal them, and also when they thought I was going to come back again. It did come back once, but it was entirely unnecessary, I think. I think the flashback edits are kind of a cheap trick, especially it's just to remind the lowest common denominator member of the audience. Hey, this is exactly where this guy's from, even though he says a line like Oh, you were dressed like Dick Tracy and then there's a whole after scene where, you know, he's interrogated by the woman about like, Oh, how'd you get this car, thus explaining every you know, what was felt required to be over explained. I feel like if you need a flashback edit it, you probably could have flashed out that character, if they're that important, earlier. What wasn't it wasn't even supposed to be the guy who got his car stole and he said Hey, you're the guy who stole my friend's car, and then they they did the flashback to just some guy stabbing the knife through his roof because he was just one of the chronates. Well, there were multipended. I didn't I didn't really mind that because, well, it was quick. They didn't replay the whole scene. Yeah, I have a problem my I don't really mind when movies do that because I think it's sort of an interesting way to change up the editing rhythm of a scene. I don't like it when movies use like they put like an effect on the audio and like somebody says a line of dialog but it's remember when this happened, like I don't like when it's when it's likes distorted, so you know, but it's just been the picture. Yeah, I guess. I mean it will. What the other flesh back was when they were talking about the other guy that was hired by the CIA. I think he was security also. Yeah, the the the George Sam's guy who, yes, Sam's, yes, who killed it was the FBI informant who killed someone else. Yeah, okay, okay, let's let's play the famous segment Trent's confused part explains. Here's the scene where literally, to this day, no idea what's going on. Pablo, if you have any general blue what's going on, feel free to chime it. It's the scene where a member of the Black Panther party goes to like some guy, he's an older gentleman's like mobile home and he's like, yeah, my friends in the hospital and I need your help somehow, and he's like no, Go away, and then it's never referenced again. What's that all about? The one where he feels the police on him? I don't know. It's I don't know if he calls the police, but they're outside and I think he's like Yo, you need to do an open in an open investigation on what happened here and he's like, I'm not interested, go away please. I think the guy in the trailer was also an operative. Yeah, Oh, wait, could could he have been the the operative guy from the end, because I was o originally very confused about that guy. To Oh the I got the yeah, the guy...

...in the bar who's like hey, you know how you're an informant. I hesitate to call him a him, but he was dressed like a pimp. Yeah, I mean, I think that's what's what, that's what was going on. I can't currently but I think that last scene, especially since it's unknown as to who poison him, takes a big a big elite by inventing this character and giving him poison to give to the main character. Yeah, I think that this movie has even basically, since it's what it wait what, since it's unconfirmed as to if William O'Neill played a role in poisoning Fred Hampton. Thus, the story needed to create this pimp looking guy to give him the poison, and I'm saying that that is the biggest narrative leap that they're asking us to go on to in terms of straying from the known facts. Um, yeah, I guess. So, Pablo, did you have something or do we want to go into rating? Oh, I mean, I was just going to say that I feel like this movie has you do a lot of the inference yourself, like they don't really go into detail about how will O'Neil came to join the black plant, the panthers or rise. I love their ranks. You know, I don't know if these things are better left unsaid. They do get the story moving quicker, but I think as far as like the trailer Guy Goes, you just I've are. You've already been rolling with the punches throughout the room time. So, Oh, I have one last comment to make and then we can go into our ratings. I think one thing I thought while watching the movie a lot was that I wanted more scenes with Daniel Cluya and Theikeith Stanfield, Yep, because I thought that a lot of that ending emotional, like him choosing to assassinate him or poison him. I thought it was effective, but it thought. I thought that they were trying to get more out of it than we were actually getting, because it's meant to be super emotional because he doesn't want to do it, but we haven't actually seen that many scenes of the two of them interacting, which is why I felt like it might be better to just have it be a Fred Hampton movie where he's the main character, because they don't have to you know what I mean? I don't know that. That was kind of my thought on the matter. Yeah, I definitely wouldn't say that their friends. He's kind of just drives he, I mean, his way in was that he drives them around and then, you know, he's at the meetings and at best he's the security officer. But yes, I mean for the emotional response they the movie did have to make them some closer than than they might I think you could have just had a few more scenes. I mean, you don't. We also know that you don't. You don't need to. You don't need to lie about how much you know what how close they were, but you can just have more scenes of them at that relationship level to to give some more connection to them, because the problem is that they're two like stories that never really intersect too much and on the other hand, there that they're just the powerhouse actor and so naturally you want to see their dynamic with one another and for the majority of the film. They interact very little. Yeah, well, okay, I'm going to go first with my rating. I think, thinking about it, I think I have more problems than I thought I did when I initially saw it, and so...

I'm going to give it a seven point five. I think that's fair, despite it being my number two movie of the year. My Most Recent Watch, however enjoyable, was a little bit slow, and I will I will give it a seven. I feel like I'm going to have to neglect to give this a rating. Did it go? No, no, no, Pabam, come on, baby, come on, you be our first guest to just so openly ignore the first you say you have to listen to the podcast, then you fail to abide kills of the I feel what's your what's your basis for withholding? I just feel like the net worth of this movie outweighs its technical flaws. I mean, this is the kind of situation I run into and I watch a storical dramas like, I'd almost rather watch a documentary about it so I can get you know, I'm because if I would watch about a biopic or, you know, a narrative version of this, it would be to get a handle on their character, you know, or what you know, some kind of character development, which I feel like there wasn't too much of. If, if I have to assign a number to it, I don't know, because the six maybe. I don't think the technical elements of the problem. I think the cinematography is beautiful. Well, not the same. I think it's more like pacing and character. I'd there is where our issues a lot. Am I wrong? Yeah, I mean the need to justify and have too much of a pacing issue, but I did have. Yeah, I mean if you're going to take the leap and make a biopic instead of a documentary, I feel like your subjects need to be need to have characters. Yeah, although it is nearly impossible to make a documentary that's you know, does well at the box office. So I understand if you're just trying to get the story out there. But at the end of the day, Warner Bro Brothers is a business and you know, if they're if they're gonna, if they're going to tell a story about a historical black leader, they better make hell of bills. Well, on that note, making hell of bills, that's what we do here on craft services, and we also are in the business of making hell episodes, do we? We we have an episode coming out next week. Is that an interview? Is that for before sunrise, with perhaps script supervisor Monica Petrilo? Is that a thing that's happening? Yeah, I'd say perhaps next Sunday will be interviewing or we already have interviewed but will be releasing our interview with, like parth alluded to at the a script supervisor from before sunrise. And if you heard our winks from before, we try to try and wait that. That's not happening until after. Don't, don't, don't tease that because we have to release the slate and then waited about it. You don't talk about that because we were no, because we're talking about Steve Jobs first. All right, okay, so, jet, so, just, so, just tease, just she's this. Wait, so it can I Steve I can I tease Steve Job? No, don't tease Steve Jobs on the next one. Okay, maybe I'll watch that one. Wait, as in wit, as in wait, because you watch this movie. But are you're saying maybe you'll listen to that episode. Wait, Pablo, would you be more likely to listen to this episode, since you're on it because I'm on it. Does that make it better or worse for you? Probably worse, but all right, try and get get, just be like when do you listen to a podcast? Me Know, like, I mean, like what, what,...

...like, what time of day will like? What? When you're doing what? alls? I wait, if I was taking the bus or something, that probably listening when I'm when I'm driving, especially, like, all right, Pablo, no offense, we have time for this Chit Chat. So I'm just going to sit that. I'm just going to do my job and and me and my lava lamp are going to just do this out for all right. Just say, yeah, we're getting yeah, in case, you just Redo the eluded part. Yeah, yeah, as part alluded to, we will be discussing, or we interviewed Monica Petrillo, the Scripture Riser from before sunrise, and she was really swell. Right part. Yeah, I like she was. She was like a cool, interesting lady, I'd say so. And maybe she circumnavigated Australia in a plane and was the first woman to do so. Maybe. I don't know. You'll find out next week on prap craft service. It's it's our pot. We have a movie podcast perhaps serves the thank you, Pablo, for coming on. Yeah, Pablo, have any FELLAS? Do you want to it was nice. Are you gonna listen? Do like podcasting now? Have you turned a new lead? You know, I think I've turned around. Yeah, are you going to listen to our our all of our episodes now, like you're going to go back through the whole catalog? Yeah, you have. You're a lot of you have a lot of catching up to do. You've made me a podcast person, but maybe not this podcast.

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