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Episode 8 · 2 years ago

JOHN WICK: CHAPTER 3 - PARABELLUM (2019) with Stand-In/Photo Double Vince Hickman

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Trent tells Parth about his recent food experience, they also talk with an accomplished actor, photo double, stand in, and stunt person. 

Edited by Parth Marathe

So, Trent, what have you been eating today? Interesting Story. Today I was at a flea market and I exited the aforementioned I don't know. There was like a big like banquet hall with a bunch of people and they were selling their assorted trash and then I walked out to the parking lot and I was going to my car and in between me and my car is like a football field length, and in front of me the only obstacle is these two ladies and as soon as I come into view, their hollering at me and they're like come on over here, and so I went over, mostly because I had to in order to get to my car. Is it would have been pretty obvious if I try to take like an alternate route. So I put my head down and walked over and they were selling a product and usually at this at this flea market, there's a lot of like outdoor vendors, but today it was raining and so these two ladies are just like they're in the pouring rain under the little tent, very persistent. That's that's good business. And so I walk over. Is they've really left me no choice and I was like all right, you have you have fifteen seconds, like give me your pitch, like sell me on whatever this product is. And it was homemade crumb cake, and I was like okay, tell me more, and they named off all the flavors and they seem pretty enticing. So the want so one crumb cake, Partha. I'll one crumb cake. was about like the size of my face, which isn't very large if you know anything about my face. But it was thirteen dollars and then two were twenty five and I was like, no offense, but like this crumb cake is already like really expensive. So and they were like, we're going to warn you now. You're going to regret it if you only buy one, and I was like we'll have to. I'll have to take that risk because I'm not the kind of Guy Care just ready to part with twenty five dollars. So I bought one. It was like a coat. It was like a gourmet coconut crumb cake and I brought it home and I ate it. Well, I ate a sliver and parth look on my face. It was like the best thing I've eaten in like several years. And the tragic part is that they were only there today and their bakery is based out of like upstate New York. So, if I like, they hooked me and now it's inaccessible and I am going to have to drive like several hours from more. And they were right. I should have bought several. So is crumb cake? Yes, the remains of it are upstairs as we speak. And too it's going to be taking up the majority of my brain power throughout this podcast. It has cast some wicked spell on me and it's it's all I think about. We have you. Have you been eating or well? Do you have any questions before we move on? Or No, I mean you've I know I could see your face. You were you were a happy but with an elaborate description part. Have you had any eye opening bakery experiences today, or is that just me? Not Not any bakery experiences. I had Thai food today, for whatever that's worth. Some Pad Thai Chicken, Pad Thai way is Tai? Is Thai food from Thailand? Does that? Does that check out? Is I hold any more? That the the land of Thai? Yeah, got it. Okay, geography quiz. Where is Thailand? Um, just give me like a region or tell me like the second agent. It's Asian. I agree. I would say somewhere east of I mean it could be west of us if you keep going west. Well, if you go east or west of us in either direction for long enough. Yeah, I'm sure you'll reach yeah, that's well, yeah, that's not it. That's rather imprecise. I'm just saying I think it's an island nation. Is that wrong? I will tell you that right now because I know this and I'm not searching it up, and I wasn't. It's a it's an it's located at the center of the Indochinese Peninsula. So it's by China. Is that what that means? It's near China? Yeah, yeah, because I only like vaguely know the whereabouts of China, because I know, I know lots of most of the people at a lot of people in Thailand migrated...

...from southwestern the eastern hemisphere. Is All a blur to me, for being honest. MMM, even with rear up or just people that don't look like you. Well, I have to pay respects to my great ancestors of Eastern Europe. But beyond but beyond that, I just haven't taken the well, I've been to Europe, as middle class white people do in their free time, but I'm yet to visit any of the other continents. HMM. You. I've been to Europe. I've been to which countries? I'm going to sound like an asshole here, but you already do. Okay. Well, I've been to Italy, Spain, Greece. Was this all in one in one trip? No, I went to I went to Rome when I was like six, MMM, and then I went to Spain and second grade I went to France and fourth grade I went to Greece. In going the summer into my eleventh grade, I went to so you're what you're what cards the economic crash in Greece, as you went there and you bought so many, so much like tourists Knick knacks, and then you left and then there was a huge there was nothing there fall out. Yeah, I won't. I won't say where there are. You. You bought up supply and there was no more. HMM. But you just don't want to claim responsibility. Well, I'm you don't want the Greek gover I'm not going to mammy. They're dangerous people. The the economic crashes I may or may not have caused. How about let's just let's just cut to the show q the Intro, welcome back to craft services, or we talk about movies. Each week we discussed a different film. Hopefully I have an interview with the crew member of that film to talk with us about their experience. This week we're going to talk about John Wick, Chapter Three Parabellum, and with us we have Keanu Reeves stand in and photo double Vince Hickman, synops Sim DP gave me is John Wick is on the run after killing a member of the international assassins guild and with a fourteen million dollar price tack on his head. He is the target of Hitmen and women everywhere. I'd say that's accurate. Yeah, I mean that it's more or less what happens. I find it weird, like you would think that like hitmen should encompass like assassins of all genders. It's weird that they had to specify hit men and women like I know that it goes back to the conversation of like actor and actress, right, but I know some people are advocating for just like all people who served tables are just waiters or and so on and so forth, because it's kind of like a needless distinction. Let's some get some gender quality in the assassin business. Yeah, ptarth, way to advocate. Well, here to talk about John Wick three. We're gonna give you, guys, are interview with Vince Hickman. He was a super awesome guy, really forthcoming with a lot of stuff. He's worked with a lot of interesting people. See Steven Spielberg, Christopher Nolan, Keanu Reeves, Tom Hanks. Guys, stay tuned. It's quality interview with Vince Hickman, so let's que it. Yeah, hello, everybody. We're here with Vince Hickman. He's an incredibly talented artist WHO's worked in several different departments in films. He's worked with some incredibly prolific artist such as Christopher Nolan, Steven Spielberg, Steven Soderberg, and he's worked as Keanu ree stand in for our film today, John Wick Chapter Three, parabellum. I'm incredibly excited to be talking with him. So welcome to the show. Hi, guys, pleasure to be here. Well, thanks for coming on. So our first question was we did some research and it says that you worked at the Pentagon as a naval intelligence specialist down on Wall Street and then created a successful internet company. Can you go through the process, they guide you to where you are today in the film industry. Sure it certainly wasn't a planned one. I kind of found my way into Hollywood. Out of high school. I joined the navy and found myself as a naval intelligence specialist. It eventually...

...was stationed at the Pentagon and after meeting my wife and getting married, I ended my naval service, moved to New York City and had a typical New York experience. At first worked on Wall Street for a few years, using some of my military background to good use, and, as many people in New York do, I found my way into the arts. I ended up working at a fine arts gallery, running that for a number of years. Found discovered photography, fell in love with video started experimenting with Short Digital Films. You know, ten, twenty, ten, fifteen years ago and as sometimes happens in New York, so a casting agent had seen a short digital short that I had done and asked if I was available to do some work on a on a television show. I believe the short that I was working on was a surf video that I made. The role was as a surf instructor on the USA networks television show royal pains. Wasn't wasn't that bit significant of a role, but I had a blast. It was my first time on set and yeah, every couple weeks someone would call me back based on the last job that I had, and one one GIG led to another, and I've been a member of SAG since two thousand and eleven. So I certainly found a little spot for myself in Hollywood. That's pretty cool. I mean, it's not a path most people generally go down, not at all, which is very interesting. And we started this podcast because there's all these different jobs in when you work on a movie that I feel people don't really know about. Sure, and so one of them that I find interesting is the job of a Standin, which is what you are credited as in the John Wick trilogy for Keanu Reeves. So what we were wondering was what would you say would be a job description of a standin and any things you would want the public to know that they may not know about that job? Sure. Again, it's having been a huge television movie buff all my life before I worked in the business, I had no idea that a standin or a an old fashioned term body double even existed in the traditional sense. The lead actor, or even a supporting actor sometimes isn't available to the director or the cinematographer for all the requirements on set. I mean, if you dtuse John Wick is an example, you know you'll see the scene of John Wicker, Keanu reeves delivering the line, but you know all the action sequences, all of the him getting into a car and going down a hallway. There's any number of scenes or it's very, very complicated to get that. Preparations done for the production, camera lighting, especially with an action scene. You know what Lens is the cinematographer going to use? There's all these reasons why they need the actor there in order to kind of rough it in and you know, especially on these big pictures, you know Keanu Reeves is time is much better spent than hanging around making sure the lightings just perfect or you know what Lens are they going to use. So that's what a Standin is used for. STANDIN's used. Usually we get there were some of the first people that arrive on set, maybe the director of cinematography, a lighting guy and the stand in, and they just kind of walk through what's in the script for the day John Wick enters the bar, looks around, sees the bad guy, approaches, grabs the pencil, whatever the scene is, just kind of walk through it. You know, if, as his Standin, I'd get in the doorway, the cinematographer would say, all right, let's go and action. I'd come in. He just get an idea, make some notes to his assistant. You know, maybe we'll get this lens, will see what's going on, put up, you know, a light source out of the window. You know, just kind of just just roughly block in the scene and you know that goes on with more complexity and more working members of the crew as we get closer to shoot time. So that, hopefully the goal is is, once Keanu walks on set, fully clothed, the ready for a rehearsal, I've kind of got it all worked out for him. It's not going to take him an hour to do something. He walks in, you come in here, you stop there, grab the gun, whatever it is, he does his thing and if I've done my job, I've saved them a lot of time and you know, it's as fun as it sounds. So are you only like do you ever see yourself and like the final cut of the movie. I like, are you filmed with shots that Kano's face isn't in like our? Well, it be like your shoulder and then over the shoulder, or you walk. It could, it could bait and that and that. I alluded to that earlier. In addition to the role of a Standin, there's also a position called photo double, or a traditional body double, if you will. I played both roles. The stand and doesn't need really to look exactly clear, like Kean areeves. It doesn't even really need to look close. So it gets the most important thing that for a stand in is is that they're approximately of the same height and you...

...know, again it's for you know, looking for a male form coming through a window or coming through a doorway or coming across the room. It doesn't need to be that specific. A photo double obviously someone that didn't. Normally they have the exact same body measurements so they fit exactly in their clothes and you know, a lot of times what they'll do is this Keanu will come in or I'll do it as a standin. I'll rough the scene out with the director in the cinematographer. Keanu comes in, he does his scene, delivers his line and as soon as he's done exactly what he has to do, he goes Aha, they they wrap him to go on to the next set. Or maybe perhaps he wraps for the night. I go to come in grab maybe the jacket off his back, put it on. Hopefully my hair looks just like his. Or they wi me and then they put the camera behind me and and I'll and I'll do that those scenes that you don't really have to see his face or they're seeing. Sure I've been a photo double for a number of projects, not just with John Wick but with other war literally that the lead actor comes up and says, you know, okay, let's go, let's get out of here and go rescue the dance, you know, go rescue the girl and as soon as they turn away and they cut to the wide shot, the shadowy hero that's running off in the did into the distance isn't Keanu Reeves. That would be met, but then as soon as they cut back it's him. And some of the more complicated fight sequences or driving sequences, in addition to a stand in and anybody double. There's a fight double, there's a driving double, there's a horse double in any one sequence there could be five different males depicting John Wick. That's just cut, cut, cut, cut, cut. It gets pretty complex. So hopefully we're all about the same size, same body weight, and rarely do they have to, you know, deep fake someone's face or anything like that, but they can. They have at times. KEANU's county was to accomplished and so physically fit. Most of the time he would do everything and they would film him do everything and they would wrap him and let him, you know, do something else and maybe they would cover it a different angle with one of us that they didn't necessarily leave the face or they can, you know, just getting up off the floor and like, you know, hobbling out the door or something like that injured. They wouldn't need him for that. They would use a double, a body double or stunt double and just freeze him up. You know, it's a it's a complicated sometimes there's two or three units shooting at the same time and he's leaving one and going to be whisked to the next one, so that it's just a very coordinated machine of, you know, trying to get a hundred shots in and as quickly as they can, with you know, using his time as wisely as they can. It's fascinating me a part of and yeah, it's something that I am not having not worked on those sets before, I had no idea how complicated and, you know, how many doubles that they would use for any major role, especially the the action related ones. One of the things we were wondering was how you personally got involved with the John Wick series and what that story was like. A lot of luck, you know, especially in the world of stand and not so much with body doubles, but withstand ends. It's not uncommon to have the producer's nephew, you know, where someone's friend or relative gets those great gigs. You get to hang around with, you know, the lead for a couple weeks. I had previously worked with the second the second assistant director on the John Wick series, gentleman by the name of Jeremy Marks. I had worked with him a number of times over the years in a number of different projects and yeah, I kind of every time he has a big, big job in New York, I try to get on it and hopefully and it's like, you know, if he's looking for someone to fulfill a role like this, I've I've luckily over a number of years been made a short list. I worked with him on teenage mutant Ninja Turtles. That was really the first movie that I worked with him on and got a lot of the recent long the Reboot, the the Nice it was in. Yeah, and I was one of the the foot clan Ninja's. So they sent me to Nija Role Steiner studios in Brooklyn and because I had some military background, not starty to get off on a sidetrack. Nope, yes, they were on. They asked if anyone of us of the perspective foot clan Ninja's had any military experience. Of course I raised anyone know how to March troops? So I kept my kept my hand raised, having still remembered boot camp. So the military advisor said, alright, son, go ahead and teach these guys to line up and see what you can do. So what didn't take easy. You're also pretty smart guys. took him up a couple minutes to teach him how to line up in ranks and dress right, dress, you know, face right, and marched them all around the parking lot at Steiner and to a company halt right in front of the director. And Yeah, by that point I think I've made my name with these guys, and so I got to bounce around with the number of projects that he had worked on and again him working with John Wick. I worked as a photo double in the stand on the first one and the second one. I didn't work as much as some. Again, they had so many of us at times. There was one gentleman by the name of...

Mac Caur. I've worked with him for a number of years on a number of projects. He worked closely with Keanu in the first and the second one. I was kind of his backup. Going into the third movie I kind of took over as the principle. I think Mac had some other opportunities he was taken advantage of. So luckily I got to work every day, is as Keanu's main stand in and photo double and yeah, got to have have this great experience. So we were wondering how long were you on set for John Wick Chapter Three and was that amount of time like standard for the other features you've been a part of? No, it's the longest one, most wonderfully long Gig, I've ever had, because there were so many scenes with just Keanu in it. I worked almost every single day. Let's see, two thousand and eighteen. It was early summer, May, June, July, dipping into August. He's plays a long schedule. Yeah, it was amazing and that again, that wasn't all me. I think we started, we did all the New York stuff and I towards the end they left to go to Morocco, which I had nothing to do with, and that would have been a nice, Nice trip, but some other lucky fellow got to stand in form over there. But Um, but the New York set, of the New York shoot was most of it was based out of Gold Coast Studios and Bethpage New York. That's where all the sets were shot, all over New York City. The days were incredibly low. Fourteen, sixteen hours a day, five six day street day or two off. Yeah, I mean every day you cursed having to get up out of bed, but you never wanted it to end, you know. You just knew how amazing it was and you were a little part of history, if you love this sort of thing. Yeah, no, that that sounds super awesome, amazing. I Hain't working every day on set and it's interesting that you said that you are one of the first people as a as a stand in our photo double. You're one of the first people to get on set and you have like a fairly it sounds like a fairly, fairly intimate working relationship with the actor you're doubling for and the director, and I was wondering what your relationship generally is with the director and maybe specifically on John Wick three. How that? How that sort of went? Sure it's always a tentative one. This this is a very unique environment working on the John Wick films. The director on John Wick three was gentleman by the name of Chad stiles Kie. I'm sure you guys are already know that. He is famous for not only working with Keanu reeves back in the Matrix movies as his double, but in addition to being a director of the last ten, twenty years or so, he and a partner has developed a fight, fight choreography business based out of La called seven eleven. If you were to look up their website, they are responsible for every single high end action movie. If it was the rock or if it was marvel or if it was John Wick, they were in charge of all of the fighting and all of the complicated I mean they are the literally the best of the best, and so most of the people that are on set, even if it has nothing to do with stunt, is a stunt. It means it's a stunt perform performers, dream stunt guys all over they're always there's always a couple guys throwing each other around in the in the shadows and the wings, practicing some sort of a sequence that they're going to shoot in a couple days. So it's all kinds of testosterone. If you don't get along with stunt guys, if you don't know how to behave or keep, you know, keep your nose out of everybody's business, that's sort of thing, you're not going to get too far here in a drive everybody crazy and you're not going to be invited back. And and Chad is comes from that. So it's all it's. I mean it's stunt. It's it's a stunt unit times ten. So you just it's tentative at best in the beginning, and keep your mouth shut. Make sure that before they eat look for you, you're there. Be Super, super duper professional. They're very hesitant to let you do anything because they've got stunt guys. They don't want your touching anything. You know, they don't know who you are. You're just some charming nice guy that showed up one day. They don't know your military stuff and could be extra. Hopefully, just hope, hopefully, you work long enough where you find yourself in a situation where you can do really well and impress him and they let you do more, they invite you to hang around more, and then hopefully you're accepted. I definitely felt that. Yeah, I mean, they couldn't be more professional, super cutting edge. My God, we could spend another whole day just talking on all the set pieces and John Wick three, you know, the first third of the movies, in the first first start of the movie, all in rain. You know, watching them or castrating and painting with that brush unique to a lot of the projects I've worked on. Have never been so wet before in my life. The horses, the motorcycles, the Ninja's. I mean these are huge set pieces, big portions of the movie. Mean Days and days of rehearsals...

...and watching them coordinate all this, but just, you know, standing literally feed away from from Chad, it was amazing. You know, people pay for that sort of education. I was lucky enough to be paid to participate that education. You know, keep your mouth shut. Eventually you can help him out, be charming, develop, you know, somewhat of a casual relationship. It was, you know, they were they were the best. So, as someone who is standing in for Keanu Reeves, I'm sure you had some. They have a professional relationship with him and we've asked the other people who've worked with him to confirm if he's really as nice as the Internet makes them out to be. I can, I can absolutely agree that he is one of the nicest, most professional people I've ever worked with. That's what people say. Absolutely, that's wonderful. Yeah, he's become he's become like the Internet to dad. I'm just being such a warm, welcoming presence while portraying such a mean, murderous man. Yeah, no, it's it. Yeah, it's amazing that he plays such vicious guy because he has he's such a soft spoken, softspoken guy. It it projects well, though, on screen. What one of the questions I wonder now, given your military background, was is there, maybe on this movie specifically or another movie? I mean you spokes briefly on teenage M and Ninja Turtles, where you were able to take your background into that and that was able to sort of creatively feed into the movie in some sort of substantial way. I don't know. I mean, I guess in the context of what we're talking about as a stand and double, you'd be surprised at how, despite most American men running around them as kids with guns, playing cops and robbers, how very few people look convincing holding one. When you work at this level, I take these things very seriously in the these creative geniuses in all their different areas take it extraordinarily seriously. So if you're blessed enough to be invited to walk through that door frame with a gun in your hand, point it up and you're going to project the silhouette of John Wick for these guys to kind of paint their masterpiece, you better know how to hold a gun. So the all of the basic military training that I had, my military bearing, if you will, I've seen that's actually carried me through because, again, most of the guys that lose their gig is, you know, they've they've somehow found themselves in this role and then they're given a gun or they're given something. You know, we jump in that car and take off, you know, little things like that that are you not everybody, especially being in New York City. Not Everybody can even drive a car. Most people don't even have a driver's license. There's very little that have served in the military. May you know, every once in a while you'll see a pulley, retired police officer or something like that, but but that really did. I mean again, it's you know, I'm I'm in some small way in the roughest sketch possible. I'm helping to embody the character and you know, they're making creative decisions based on what I look like when I come through that doorway or come over that wall or, you know, get in the car and take off or you know, and while that sounds like it might be a little bit taking it too far, that's exactly how every that's exactly how far everyone was taken it on there on set, and I think the results speak for themself. The movies are amazing. So it says, aren't we looked at? I'm debate and it says that you worked on movies with Steven Spielberg and Christopher Nolan, and those are some of our favorite directors. So we were just wondering what it was like and if you got to interact with them at all, because I'm sure at least we'd be starstruck. Sure, oh, of course. Well, the first film that I ever worked on after royal pains. Two weeks after working on that episode I got a phone call from the same stunt guy that was on that episode to work on the Dark Knight Rises. Oh my God, so what? That's one of my favorite movies. Oh, I was I was doing right. My career is immediately my career aspirations pivoted once I got that phone call. So I was one of the police, the Gotham city police officers, that were locked underground, it were, and I'm pros like on Wall Street. So we were able to go out to, I forget where was, Robert Moses Air Field Out, I think that's what it's called, out by on the way to far rockaway New York. Anyway, went out there for fight training with stunt guys for a couple days. They divided us into Bain's mercenaries in the GCPD and we went through a very, you know, simple, coordinated, you know. And Yeah, well, if you've seen the film, that's exactly what it was like. Three days in southern Manhattan Lit, I mean just amazing. So anyway, so Christopher Nolan very, very hands on in the middle of the crowd. I mean chatted with him a couple times as he chatted with hundreds of different guys at different moments, you know, moving these Imax cameras around during these huge fights. Names he had the trench coat and the and the scarf and it was part of my friends who was fucking amazing. Yeah, rctually. So you never want to do anything else ever again once you have...

...that Gig. Steven Spielberg, my God, one of the best moments of my life. I've been honored to work on three of his last near projects. The first one was bridge of spies. That's a great movie, excellent. I again Jeremy Marks, as I previously noted. He worked on all three of these Steven spielerg movie. So it just reinforces how important relationships are. If you're asked to go to Ninja School, make sure you do a good job. You might just you might just punch your ticket to go work for Steven Spielberg. So I did a bunch of things. I drove vintage cars on set as a precision driver for them. I was a stand in for a few of the, you know, not so important characters and if you watch the end of the movie, I was very featured with Tom Hanks at the end when he's on the subway car going home. They have this text overlay in the last scene. It's a long lingering shot that explains what happened to Gary Powers after, you know, at the end of the movie and as a book and to the text, Tom Hanks is on the right and I am on the left. So it's a nice two minute lingering shot of Tom Hanks and I riding somewhere on a subway train before it fades the black and says directed by Steven Spielberg. So that was fun. The second movie I worked on was the post. Same sort of thing. Stood in, played a different number of different roles. Worked on number of days on that and then finally I was lucky enough to be a precision driver on west side story. It just wrong. That's the new, new one. That's them not even out yet not even out yet, just before all this nonsense with pandemic started. Finished filming. It did finish filming, finished all the filming, and that was extraordinary. As a precision driver, I got to drive a number of different antique vintage cars in the middle of the scenes. Worked twenty days on it, for God's sake, you know, sweat my ass off in Manhattan's Spielberg running around making this amazing remake of an amazing original movie. And Yeah, I was lucky enough with Spielberg to each project I worked on I was able to book work more days and more interesting roles. You know, worked a few in the first project, a couple more in the second. In this last one I worked so many I think you know couldn't believe it. Well, you're your meet easy, you're meeting all the famously nice celebrities. Then you've breathed the same air as Tom Hanks. I have, and he's another one, as I've told a lot of people. So a lot of these celebrities, especially actors, many of them, you know. There are some that are transformative. Meryl Streep's One, Daniel Day Lewis is another. Generally, the personalities that come through in the rolls or kind of how the people are. Tom Hanks is a very, very sweet, Nice Guy. Steven Spielberg, Sweet Nice Guy. Some of the other actors and actresses that maybe more intense, maybe perceived to be a little bit different, more difficult, they probably are. HMM. So, yeah, it just was you know, again, these are people that I grew up idolizing, just like so many. It would I would have stood in line for hours at a car show to meet them, let alone work with them. That you're getting paid and and to get paid again, don't make some much better. Don't tell them I would do it. I would pay to do it, but please don't edit that out. Don't tell them that. Of course you'll have been prost you'll have to forgive me for this, but Aaron Sorkin is my absolute favorite screenwriter. Yeah, I assume the movie you worked on him with was on Molly's game. No, actually, I just got done wrapped up, Oh, his new movie, the Chicago Movie Try. Yes, trials Chicago seven. A wonderfully intimate dozen or so days on that set, locked away in the court room. I was a one of the court bailiffs, so I got to be literally in the you know, back of the room, listening to listening and watching and participating. Stood in for a number of the leads. God, how can I not remember his name? Anyway, there were half a dozen six foot tall lead actors sitting around a dais in a court room that they would have me shuffle around for. So again, it was just to get to be in the in the in the graces of not only Aaron Sorkin, but Franklin. Jella was the judge and he, you know, just hit. Just hearing him Chitchat about the weather or the football game with such gravitask was a treat, let alone the star power. I mean if you, if you look on some of the press releases, you'll see the cast it was. It was insane. You've worked in many different departments, like you spoke about, you like. You've been a stunt person, you've been as photo double, you've been standing, you've been an actor. You have your own video consultation site that I saw yes and I was wondering whether there was a specific department that you gravitate...

...towards most, like whether it's acting or any of the other things I mentioned, or if it's just all sort of different for you and fucally fun. Your question was which gravitate? Which Department do I gravitate for? Whichever Department will pay me and book me for the day. That said, I think I'm there's this traditional vision of what it is to work in the art, especially film and Television. Ideally, like yourselves, you go off to rutgers, you get your film and degree. Maybe right. Maybe you go out to La you do some, you know, some developmental classes at USC you know, you get in with a good group of guys and you do the festival circuit. Yeah, that's a traditional it. Maybe you go to yield drama. You do it that way. Well, most of us don't. Most of us find our way, find ourselves. We find ourselves in it and you find your own way. There's a lot of creatives that just are generally creative. You know, most of the people I work at that are doing props or sound or lighting. They're also writing an album, writing a book, writing a screenplay. there. You know, it's an amazing group of people that are doing all the number of things. A little bit late in life, especially when I found myself working in an art gallery in my s, that's really when I had a creative awakening and really started experimenting and doing all kinds of stuff. So I wasn't trying to be an actor, I wasn't trying to be a stunch guy, I was trying to do anything. I was just trying to my goal was to get on set and to spend as much time bothering as many people asking them what do you do? You know, if I see him for the second or third time, I'll ask him even more and just you know, I got my creative education that maybe I'd never I didn't get to go to USC film school. I kind of have done that for myself. Over I'll be at a much longer period, but you know, I'd say I got a pretty interesting film and Television Education over last ten years. Only went with Steven Spielberg and Christopher Nolan. So you're doing fine, sure, but again, it's it's you know, you guys are a few years younger than me. I'm part of the GIG economy. You know, I'm hustling around. If, if, if a low budget commercial wants to hire me as an art director, I'll do that and I'll but I can't. I'm not available on Thursday because I'm standing in for, you know, Keanu reeves or whatever it is. Right they'll hire me to do a you know, be a sound assistant on a commercial, but you know if they'll hire me to be an FBI agent on whatever, the new Christopher Nolan movie or something like that. So it's just, you know, I would love to to to have done the the John Wick weapons focused action movies. Seven just doesn't work that way. This is kind of a tangential question, but do you have to learn dialog of the actor you're standing in for, like, do they have you like reading lines? It depends. I'd say that you know. Most of the time, unfortunately, most they're in an effort just to breeze through and get things done. Stand in. You're just, you're you just. You don't need you need to be aware of the dialog because you need to know what's happening in the scene and you know what he's doing, but you didn't necessarily need to know it. There's an old fashioned way of being a stand in and I've occasionally been exposed to this. Now, in the early days I wasn't prepared and I sure as hell got appeared as the old fashioned way being a stand and was whoever you were, the standing was you would help them rehearse. Nowadays everybody's got so many resources and there's you know, they've got their own trailer, they've got their helicopter, they've got four or five people that are helping them with their dialog in their line. So they're not usually using the standing in that way. But there have been times where on John Wick three perfect example. But wasn't Keanu, it was the amazing Ian McShane, who played Winston, who, before shooting a scene on the roof of the continental, grab me and said Hey, kid, would you mind running some lines with me? So I've read the lines of John Wick and he read the lines of his character Winston and Jesus Christ. Amazing, you know, can't believe it. I wish that happened more than it did. Not so much, you know, there there were ice. Had was a Standin for Ethan Hawk on a low budget indie called ten thousand saints and he was extraordinarily busy. The other actors needed a lot of rehearsal time. So I actually it only took two or three days into that Gig where I knew, my God, I got to memorize this dialog, because all the other leads are going to expect me to be Ethan Hawk until he shows up at the last minute and does his amazing magic trick of just knowing all the lines of everybody and then, as soon as he's done eiliately, you know. So yeah, at times there's there's a reason for you to know it. Most of the time I'd say it's not a requirement. Some guys probably do it for years and never have to know a line of dialog. They just generally know what the character supposed to do and go through the motions. But a few times that you're asked to do it, if you're prepared, it's a lot of fun. We're also living in somewhat dystopian times and we were wondering how the coronavirus has...

...been treating you since this whole and how it's affected your ability to work. Sure interesting question. It certainly put my entire professional life on pause, as it does for Film and Television. I still pay my sag dues, as they're requiring us to pay them. All of all, as far as New York goes, all of productions been shut down since March and with no foreseeable start in the future. I frank, I think anybody would tell you they don't know. I certainly don't know. I I have very little confidence that I'll be returning to set any time soon. Personally, instead of filing for unemployment, I immediately went out and got a job as a photographer. That's somewhat related, in the know the creative but just almost as a survival instinct, because I just knew as even during the best of times it was such a fragile existence that, man, when times are if are going to get questionable, you know. Yeah, I just you know, you're looking at personal survival. So anyway, I right now. Yeah, everything still shut down. Do I foresee? Eventually will it get back to normal? Whatever the new normal is, you bet they're going to be cranking out Netflix box blockbusters by the dozens before you know it. Right now, I don't know how it affects us. For instance, I know that there's been a few projects around the world that have started again, one of which is Matrix, for so I got some sense of how they're handling those things, things like standins and doubles. They're not they're they're questioning the use of those. They're trying to minimize the people on set. They're probably going to be asking more of the lead actors and actresses instead of, you know, instead of using the stand Ben's if they can cut them, you know what I mean? Like it's just the sort of thing that they're going to break the rules and not and not do that. You know, whenever they have a FBI task force or some court of a swat unit or something that, they normally would cast a half a dozen of us to stand behind Colin Farrell to go kick the door in. I can't see that they're going to do that, at least not in the next year or two. They're either going to you know, my what I've heard is combination of them just re rewriting things so that they don't use so many people. Instead of him being with the unit, maybe he takes down the door by himself. It's just again, it limits all those little magic moments that you were able to find yourself and it put you in a situation where men things have to work out so well for me and so I have to be so lucky and fortunate for me to be able to carve a living out for myself. Yeah, if you just go back into that hopefully many of my friends, some are struggling more than others. All of us were kind of gigging it in a number of different creative areas. So hopefully you can still some retain a few of them so that, God forbid, when they do call year from now and say hey, John Wick for can you come in for a couple days, you know you want to be available, you want to be around, you want to be still in the game. It's scary to think that might not be the case. I think I'm okay right now. A lot of us aren't. You know, I yeah, I it's a tough time. It's a tough time for a lot of people and certainly for this business. But movies will movies will look movies will survive. It's exciting to think about the boom post quarantine of content making up for lost time. I think so. I mean, my God, there's been so much kind of if you just based it on Netflix alone, they had made, they were cranking out so much content prior to this that you there won't really be a perceived loss of content, like, Oh my God, there's no new shows. There's so much in the can that when they do, I mean the technology, the way that they're the studios are being built now, the streamlining of everything. I mean when they do, when things are trust me, when they give the go so the Batman can start shooting in the London again. It's insane how quickly they can get everything up and run. Hopefully everyone hasn't had to transition to other careers in other industries to try to survive this. That's what you know, all of us. If you're if you're a hugely successful department head in any major television studio, you'll probably be okay. You're probably just you'll be waiting for their call when it's time for work. The rest of us, we're all gigging other places, trying to hold on, you know. So may we all be able to, you know, for all of us that kill ourselves to participate in the art form that we love. Hopefully we can hang in there and and beyond said, another day very well put. So we're going to wrap up. Thank you so much to Vince Hickman, our guest. He was at Andanden on our film of choice this week, John Wick, chapter three, parabellum. We thank him for coming and talking with us. Thanks, guys. Thank you so much. All right, part of bring...

...us bring us a back from the interview talk about how great it was. Man, that was such a great interview with Vince Hickman. I think so too. Sorry, I didn't know how to bring us back in other than that. But yeah, he was a great guy. He was just a wealth of interesting stories. Honestly, we talked for maybe like ten fifteen minutes after the podcast ended and we could have talked for the next seventy two hours if time permitted, but we we had other plants and he probably had to like sleep or tend to his family. Maybe or maybe not. But another feature of this podcast that we've been trying out has been reading the One star reviews off of Amazoncom for movies that we like, and it's a fun juxtaposition to hear People's complaints. So part you mind if I just have at it, please? Yeah, these people out rather strongly. I'll read them and then we'll discuss and then we'll probably move on. Description terrible exclamation point. The five star ratings are fake. Nothing makes sense about this movie. No plot opens with him bloody and running and that's pretty much the movie. Really like the first two movies, but this one is shameful. I feel robbed. Description, no thanks. I guess I grew out of the action genre. Completely cheesy fight scene, fight scene, weird wooden conversation, fight scene. Maybe I'm just biased due to my watching of shows such as Ozark and the good doctor recently. Description. Skip it. Content, long, repetitive, boring, plus terrible acting from Keanu Reeves. The stories nonsensical, dumb, etc. John Wick is invincible, so it seems. For example, John Wick get shot four times in the chest and survives a fall off a high high rise building, landing on a concrete this this is a type of nonsense you're going to see next one. Not enough time. Oh well, I'll read it in that. I ordered this thinking I had a week to watch it and I was going to while doing paperwork this weekend, and when I went to watch it it had expired. You only have twenty four hours to watch it now. Seems like a rip off to me, maybe because I don't have time to sit down and watch a whole movie at once, but probably just won't runt anymore. If that's all the time I get, I'll just go to red box from now on. Didn't get to see anything but the first five minutes. Lol. That's a wasted six dollars. I like how this person didn't even hate the movie. They were just obsessed the system. They didn't get to watch it, but it makes no sense that they would give it a one star own view for that reason. Fault. It's their own fault, but I do agree that like renting a movie and then only having twenty four hours to watch it is absurd. I think itunes gives you forty eight hours now, as does as does verizon, which was my predicament, because I started it one night and then the next day I had other plans, but I was like, well, I guess I have to cancel them because I'm certainly not going to pay another six dollars to rent it again. So I had to make it work and my forty hour span. Moving on, cool if you're thirteen years old. I've seen the other John Wicks, so I pretty much knew it to expect, but this one was an over the top blood bath. That no doubt. The target audience was thirteen to nineteen male demographic. Like watching a graphic live action video game and you could absolutely predict every plot line. If you're drunk or high maybe, but sober. Dot, dot dot. Ominous. Last one. Good movie, but poor viewing experience. I rented the K quality, did not get full K quality. The movie kept sputtering and rendering it low quality, picks lated and grainy, despite having fast Internet. Truly disappointed by this. Should have gone with red box. I have really taken a liking to the reviews that have nothing to do with the movie and it's just about the conditions surrounding their viewing experience. Another consensus was people who thought that this one was like upsettingly violent, which kind of made no sense to me because I was all it is out of place in the John Wick Franchise to be violent. So, but it's no more violent than the past two. And if you've come this far, I don't think. I don't think you should be offended by anything you see in this movie. If you were fine with the other...

...two movies. It's like watching like Jurassic Park three and being like, Oh, I hate the amount of dinosaurs in this one. It's like it's what you signed up for and they're also I like don't really understand the people who are like, Oh, I loved one and two and now this because I think this one is I don't want it. I mean we'll get let's let's let's hold off on that. Let me. Let me give the budget and box office of this movie, please, if you would let me. The budget of this movie is about twice that of the sequel's budget. It's got a budget of seventy five million dollars and it made three hundred and twenty six point seven million dollars worldwide. I read the fun fact online that forty five million dollars were spent on advertising, which is a lot of money. Part do you have forty five million dollars? Not On me. No. Do you think you'll ever a like acquire like that amount of wealth in your lifetime? Once I've crashed enough economies? Sure so, you're gaining money by crashing these economies. I thought you were just like watching the world burn. Trent. You want to get into the production history. Yeah, if you don't mind, so the production history. I'm more so. Just have some fun facts this week that I exerted. Okay, it has a ninety percent on rotten tomatoes. It was consider the run. Tomatoes voted as the second best action movie of two thousand and nineteen behind a movie called shadow that I had never heard of. I've never heard of that. According to Keanu, the film's title Parabelm was taken from the famous fourth century Roman military quote. Pardon my pronunciation, because I guess it's in Roman or whatever language it in Latin. It's there. You go see. Know that Romans spoke Latin. See veast's Possum Parabellum, which means if you want peace, prepare for war. No need to question my lack of knowledge about the Latin language. It's it's dead. People, move on, learn it. took it for like five years. Wow, I bet you did so good on the Shat. You got to learn about root word. In an interview with Jimmy Fallon, Halle Berry said I broke three ribs and rehearsal the action scene featuring also. This is going to sound insane, but when I watched the movie I was like, is that Halle Berry? And then I and then I just like moved on. And then today when I was reading about it and it said Halle Berry's in this movie, I was like I can't be right, but she was. She was just totally a part of it. She was she had a roll. She acted and she's in nine yards. Yeah, she's in the final appeared in it. The action scene featuring NBA basketball player Bo Bon wif Mar Jnovic was inspired by the Bruce Lee film game of death, where Lee fights and be a basketball player. Cream AB Dul Jabbar Nice. I liked that. Seen a lot and that was a want. That was a big man, but I didn't know that he was a basketball star. He plays for the Mavericks. Just an FYI I don't what if. What is his last name? where it seemed like a Russian. I think so, given his accent. So KEANU was nominated. This came out in two thousand and nineteen. Is All right. HMM. Keanu is nominated for the at the at the Razzi's was given the Razzi redemption nomination, but he lost to Eddie Murphy, who won for Dolma. Is My name. So the rise of Redemption Award is basically for people that have been nominated for worst actor actress in the past but have since come out with a good movie. So I did some more research and Keanu was nominated for worst actor six times. For doing me. Name the movies please, Johnny Meno, Mik a walk in the clouds, chain reaction, hardball and Sweet November. And but he's never won, which is, I guess, a good thing. But the for but the people who have won worst actor several times? Our Sylvester Stallone, who's won four times, three times Adam Sandler and Kevin Costner, and two times pauly shore and John Travol the. But yeah, we're happy for Keanu...

...that he is respected in the eyes of the Golden Raspberry Awards. Seems like a nice guy. Part take us away. Well, given that I am the John Wood Connoisseur of us too, I guess I'll start with my initial thoughts. You're yourself pronounced. I mean, you don't have a plaque that says that or anything, do you? Well, why did you come to my room find that out? Well, there's a pandemic going on. Please don't come to my room. Okay, I'll stay away from your room. Besides, for when I come over tonight and look at you through the slits in your window and just release a lot of pent up aggression, just looking at you from a safe distance would really relax me. It's therapeutic. Oddly, some people do Yoga, some people watch part sleep, but talble. Tell us about your initial thoughts. I saw this movie in theaters and I was a very, very big fan of it. Since theaters, I've seen it a few times and I really like it. I think it's my favorite move in the movie in the series for action and it's probably the worst movie in the in the series for its coherence. Really not adherence, I think it just it drags in the middle the most out of all three, but I enjoy it probably the most. All right, this was my first time and, like I mentioned, I watched it over I watch it in halves over two nights. Thanks Verizon. But I don't know if it just caught me in the right mood, but I sure as hell liked that a lot more than the second one and I thought the action was great. I thought in the second one I complained a lot had the story had like it kind of just felt purposeless. But even though this like the plot, even though the plot of this film was more or less just an extension of the last one, I was totally on board. I was like, it's straightforward. I mean I mean that maybe that's unfair to call it straightforward, but everyone tried. I would say it's very straightforward every it is not a complicated movie. It just like which is fine. It's from Point A to point B to point C and there are a lot of steps like to arrive at the eventual destination, but it's it's very linear and the like. You mentioned. The action sequences were great and the cast was even better. And well, let's start. Start. What do you think of the direction? Like I assume you you think it improved. Well, it's the same director in the same writer as the past two. There's three. There's three more writers on this movie. Really. Yeah, I know Derek Cole said, I think the stories by him and he's one of the writers for the screenplay, but they got three other two or three other people for the screenplay. I think you are more equipped to discuss the direction is. I'm just a lowly viewer and you are the the the corner CONUSA. I think this is a I think this is not as big of a jump in direction from like the first one to the second one. I think this one's a pretty much like a solid ext like not in a bad way. Like the second movie was like Pretty Awesome in its direction and I think this has again second extension of the second one. I think the First Act of this movie is the best John Wick material ever, where he's just on the run. MMM. So I think, I think and I kind of like that's like John Wick at like it's purest form, even though it's like in the third movie. It just like it's so high paced and we're meeting all these different zany characters from the elaborate world that we fallen in love with, and there's some Badass action sequences in between and yeah, we watch them kill people and it's it's just fun. It's wholesome American entertainment. I would agree. And I mean, I guess there's not really much I have to say on like the direction, the production design or any like technical it's all or even like acting. It's all like, yeah, no, it's all still great, I think. More so, where I have anything to say is just on story terms. Tell me, and it's just I mean, I guess spoilers, but it's just the Morocco portion of the movie. is where is Morocco, where he goes...

...to meet Halle Berry? Yeah, got it. I just feel like that portion of the movie is like I'm kind of it's it. I'm kind of blanking on what happened during that. He goes to Morocco, meets Halle Berry and then he meets Halle Berry and then Halle Berry's like got her dogs, and then how he and Allie Berry go to that one guy to get like was the where the dogs CGID know, those are real, the droll dogs. Yeah, no, for Real, Badass. They so what they did was they had trained the dogs for several several months, and then it was they ended up only shooting for four days with the dogs because of how much production, a preproduction, they'd done, and they trained them so well, because the thing with dogs that was interesting is you can't get like dogs that actually know how to like kill people, to like fake kill people. So they have to train them how to fake kill people, MMM, which is kind of an opposite process from what they do, like for the people in John Wick, where like they get people that are like actually like military background and like actual stunt work and everything like that. Yeah, and then train people how did fake do it? It was it's kind of backwards, how to look like they're killing people. Yeah, so I think the action is all great, it's just I think it's the it's the most egregious example in this movie where it's like things are happening but there's not necessarily like a flow. But that's not something I picked up on until a later viewing. Dude, dogs, like we're bulletproof. Like, Dude, do police dogs? Are Military Dogs? Were bulletproof vest or was that just like a pox unions? No, I think so. Damn, because when the second when that dog got shot, I was like wow, this they're they're really playing the greatest hits of like, Oh, I wrote my notes another dead dog, but yeah, I'm not being dead. Yeah, but I kind of I thought it was a Badass, like villain moment to be like Hey, give me your dog, and then she was like uh no, and then he was like Ha, no one can abit. Another thing I wrote in my notes was so throughout this series I've noticed a pattern, and it's that in like pivotal like narrative moments when like John Wick is like on, he is nowhere left to turn, he'll go to some character and be like, I'm going to dire situation and I need you to give me a weapon, and then they give him like a gun with like a limited amount of bullets, whether being the second one, where he gets a gun with seven bullets, or in this one, I think he gets a gun with like one bullet or something like that. and then what kind of bothers me is that it seems like he's going to have to like work under those constraints, like he's gonna have to kill all these guys with just like that limited it's with that constraint. But instead he just like kills someone immediately, used as all the available bullets and then moves on to the next weapon. And I know that that's practical, but it just makes the buildup of making this weapon seem important, like it just throws it out the window. Yeah, I agree. I think this is also a movie that suffers from exhaustion by the end in what regard. In that I think all of the action is incredibly well done. It's obvious they put a lot of hard work into it. I just think it's too much like it it like by the third what I found is that if you watch the third act on its own, it's great. If you watch the first act on its own, it's great. If you watch the second act on its own, it's also great. They're the same. The cohesion. Yeah, it's like I just think that it's it's like too much and I think it should have been paired down. I think. I think there's there's a pressure they feel to keep increasing the body count, upping the Auntie. Yeah, and I feel like that's the wrong way to go about things, because it doesn't really matter, like how many people you kill, it matters how you kill them. Yeah, so, like it's quality over quantity people. Yeah. So, like me, seeing like him like waste a bunch of guys with like a glock or something isn't going to be that cool, honestly, unless he like does it in a really interesting way. And I think this suffers from like him just wasting people, like a lot of people like really quickly at this point. There are too toptier action movies of him just like kind of kind of killing people. So to do...

...it a third time around, you really have to come up. You really have to be inventive, or it just kind of feel like you're you're replying like which, which? which they are? They are incredibly invent like they're really like I think this is the most vivid, the action is the most varied in this movie, I agree, and which is part of the reasons why I probably enjoy it the most. I just think that there's just way too like I think that that like shootout at the end to hold the continental hmm, goes on for so long and it's all good. That's the problem. It's all well made. I'm not sure what this means for the movie, but it's like I remember sitting down and and and viewing the film and actively enjoying every second. But now, when you're talking about these different shootouts, I can't recollect what you're referring to. So which is I think, John Wick, it's best parts are specificity. You know, you you remember the knife fight, you remember the pencil scene, you remember, you know, like you remember the specifics of things. You don't like really remember him like just killing all of these people right after another. Like the only thing that comes to mind from this movie is like up the fight in the library, which did something entirely new, and the fight in the weapons store, which like introduced throwing knives, which was exciting. But the rest of the stuff where he's just using a pistol or an assault rifle, I'm like, been there, done that. Yeah, and but I mean, I honestly don't have much to say other than I think it's I feel like I'm shitting on this movie a lot. I really, really like this movie. I think it's the ten tears above every other action movie series that comes out, other than the mission impossible franchise, which is very different type of action. HMM. I think like in terms of big but like bigger budget Hollywood action movies, this is the best of the best or mid budget action movies. I guess. I just hope because it sets it up for a fourth one. Yeah, production. I was going to make a comment about that. Oh, is in production now, while it was, well, it was in preproduction, because Keanu is filming Matrix for. So do you do you think that John Wick for is going to be the last? I don't know, because so chats to hell sky has said, Keyanu doesn't want to kill the guy because he really, really likes playing him. MMM, but so he just wants to leave the window open for him to return. Yeah, but chats to hell ski doesn't wanted to have a happy ending because he his whole thing is that. I mean this happens a lot in the movie. Of Consequence. Like when you play in this world, you are in the world and the world will screw you over. Yeah, rules and consequences was the thesis statement of this film. Yeah, so his whole thing is he can't have a happy ending because he keeps going deeper into hell. So the problem I have then, is you can't keep having him have it end on a cliffhanger each movie because because as at some point there's going to be nowhere left to turn it especially are ready at this point. Yeah, they're I don't know where. I don't know beyond him like killing everybody in the high table. I don't know what you can do with this movie, with the series, that would remain interesting, because I don't know how much, I mean Keyanu's like in his S, you know. I don't know how much longer he can physically candle all of that. Yeah, I didn't like how like that during this movie, especially in like the latter half, I was like, I was like this is just setting up the next movie. I was like, I know we're not going to reach a conclusion, but like that detracted from the experience for me because it meant that there isn't gonna be like a definitive ending. So it took away all the suspense because I was just like all right, and then I don't like it when they leave it in the middle of like a plot point, kind of like they did, and like we we know the next step is he's going to go after the high table, but it basically just like stopped like mid scene, and then we're gonna have to wait two years to pick up where we left off. Yeah, I just think I'm excited for the fourth one. I just don't think it should continue on as I do not need to know. Yeah, I think they need to know when to stop. Yeahh I think if you keep going needlessly, it only two tracks from how much we like the current...

...wants. Yeah, and like it's going to get harder for him as he gets older and it's going to get it can only go in either the things become worse action wise, or things become like fast and furious and like ridiculous, which which, like John Wick, has always been pretty good about having like fantastical elements somewhat but being fairly realistic. And I don't want them to. And I love the fast and furious franchise for what it's worth, but it's a different type of movie. You know, mission impossible isn't going to have the same it's not the same style as John Wick. Is Not the same style as fast and furious. It's not, you know. So I just want them to know when to stop, because my basic thing, that's an interesting point you make about basically being between a rock and a hard place with Keano, not wanting him to die so he could reprise his role and Chads the house ki saying I don't want a happy ending, when pretty much the only thing left is for him to just continue as an assassin like for the rest of his days. Yeah, and again, like those are his only two op there is no other option. He either dies or has a happy ending. And if so, and if yeah, if it ends with him just like still, like employed, like doing his usual thing, it's going to feel really abrupt. is going to feel like there was no complete arc you're just going to make well, he ended up back where he started. Yeah, well, do you want to assign a rating to this movie? So, rating wise, I would say that the overall viewing experience was the most pleasurable, but it was the three quel. So I it betrays my entire belief system to put it above the original rating wise, which I gave a seven point five, but I'm feeling daring. I'm going to give this. I'm going to give this anate just because I thought were tenens. I thought I brought a lot new to the table and it paid tribute to all the things I liked from before. And and and yourself apparently were twins, not only physically but rating wise. Yeah, I would get this innate because I think it's again it's the most enjoyable action wise out of the series, but it's the least. I think it has the least going on for it narratively, which I think that and that says a lot, since we both thought it was the best and it was probably the weakest story. Yeah, no, and I again it's still a good movie. I just it makes me a little cautious of what they do with the fourth one, but that's a story for another time, I guess. Well put. So thank you so much to our guest, Vince Hickman, Keanu Reeves's stand in and photo double. He was wonderful in the interview and we appreciate his time. Parts. Tell us about sing yeah, thank everyone for listening. Tell us about what's our next episode? Do we know? I don't know. Well, well, they figure it out. Guys, bear with us as a team. That's all for now. See you guys, but.

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