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Episode 7 · 2 years ago

JOHN WICK: CHAPTER 2 (2017) with Trailer Music Composer Ritchie Kohan

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Parth and Trent discuss John Wick: Chapter 2, despite Parth desperately seeking to insert Solo: A Star Wars Story into the conversation. 

Edited by Parth Marathe

So, Trent, what have you been eating? I'm going to take I'm going to take this opportunity to let the audience know that this is actually take two for the opening party. Just asked me a minute ago amidst take one, and I was unable to fester a response, and then he was like so, Trent, like, because you were silent, that must mean like. Subsequently, I stepped away for I said, let me get a glass of water, and part rightfully figured, Oh, trend is getting the glass of water so he has something to talk about during this portion of the film discussion. And then I returned, he was like, Oh, you haven't eaten anything. It's five PM, like you must be hungry, and then I told him, no, I have. For breakfast I had smoothie and eggs and then for launch I had chicken tenders carrot. You didn't say that. I stopped you so that we stopped me because you wanted this to be a real content and you wanted to have like a genuine facial reaction. Although there's no visual component to this podcast, let the record reflect that parth looks shocked and intrigued. Yeah, that's his shocked noise. And now I'm drinking the aforementioned glass of water, but that was just more to wet my whistle enjoy all these liquid sound. Thank you for that term trend. Yeah, we'd like to what your whistle. We are an Asmart podcast now, Partha, sorry that got out of hand. What have you been eating? I had most recently lemonade, because the drink, the drink. Actually it was a Capri du Soule, a lemonade. I didn't know you spoke French. I like. Can I say I'm a man of surprises. Yeah, your Renaissance Man. Now there's a funny story behind I don't tell me, preet, sound a story please. It's not actually that funny. I said it one but assured the story. I think I said it one time to my friend Jesse and she laughed really hard when I said it. Thank you. See, it's like Cirque de Sola, except it's Capri to Sola. Did it's Jesse have a high standard for common e for comedy, or was she just exactly like white chicks the movie? Yeah, good, the one where they yeah, it's blind men, and then they flot something, black men transferring white face and our blond girls, blond white girls, to be exact. I've seen this movie and I why I well, does that mean you haven't seen this movie? I'm not. I'm not advocating for I'm not saying I liked it, but I we crossed paths at one point. But I heard it's getting I read an article that it was like getting canceled because it's like face. It's cultural appropriation, but for Caucasian of white people. Yeah, here on craft services, the PODCAST, we like to watch out for our European friends right and and again. Last last week, we we kind of showed everybody just how against racism we were. MMM, and we like to extend that to our our white majority male friends. Let's be honest. Part I've another podcast related announcement. Let's hear it. So you know how last week we put out a call for action about which PHINEAS and ferb character I was yes, I had someone respond. But, yeah, do you hear it? Participation? Do you want to take it? Take a guess? Are you it's a main character? Not to give it away, as in they aren't like just like a side character. They wouldn't be able to guess. I feel like I don't know how Maine, this person is. I feel like visually you just look most like Jeremy. But yeah, I mean that's that's a that's a fair observation. But it was more off of...

...like energy or like personality. I'm just going to tell you, please do it was. It was the titular character, phineas. We get you're more you're more gregarious than FERB and you don't speak British right. My question was why? And then she said what is PHINEAS'S CATCHPHRASE? And I said, I know we're going to do today. And then she said you were good at planning and I said that's fair and I took that as a compliment. I mean, I don't like that they try to like plant this podcast that we're listening to right now singlehandedly. I just took parthon out of the kindness of my heart, but he run a podcast. Was My idea, let's be clear. Moving on, I don't like my resemblance to phineas and I would rather be algae. No, I won't go on the record as saying I'd rather be bullshit, but Buford just that like hits home for me, something about harassing like the smaller, like the winker. I didn't bring race into this. That was you. He did well. That's just your past trauma slipping out. So no need to force it upon me. Do Do you have any cartoon related content you'd care to share with the teens of America, which is our audience, mostly Americans and presumably mostly teens, hopefully white? I mean, what part you keep keep hammering away at this. I what do you what a gender are you serving? Um, I think we're scaring me. What we're going to cut for the show now? Welcome back to craft services, where we talk about movies. Each week we discussed a different film and hopefully have an interview with a crew member of that film to talk with us about their experience. This week we're talking about John Wick to or, well, I guess, excuse me, John Wick Chapter two, which immediately follows John Wick. And with us we have the Charlie and with us we have the trailer music composer, Richie Cohan. parth conducted this interview alone, Solo, like my favorite star wars film. So parth loves the movie Solo and he did this interview alone, which was the guy them he would. He was the music. He can compose the trailer music for John Wick, chapter two and three. althoways. He was uncredited on too, which is interesting. Disrespect. We get into that. And so this is how it's crediting him. Yeah, fine, but unfortunately we only talk about the movie solo, which he did not want on this shopping it was did he evil ought to see. He was like much like star wars, the last Jedi. You really subverted my expectations about what this interview was going to be about. Waits. So part is that. Let's just let's clear the air. That was a joke, right, because, guys, I wouldn't want to miss lead our listeners about what to expect with this upcoming you talked about like John Wick to related stuff. We did not talk about Solo. Did you get did you? Did you? Did he ask you any personal questions? He was, he like, all, what are you honest? What are you wearing off camera it? It got a little interrogatory. He was like, have you committed any crimes recently? And you're like, mortal, would I be willing to commit crime for him? We your response. Well, you'll have to. Let's get to the interview now. Want Way.

Hello everybody. I'm here with Richie Kohan. He's an incredibly talented artist WHO's worked in the music department for such films as Xmen, apocalypse, ghost in the Shell, beautiful boy and as work on the trailer music for John Wick Chapters two and three. I'm incredibly excited to talk to with him. So welcome to the show. Thanks, thanks for having me. So we generally like to start our interviews by asking what got you into film and, like, what laid your interest in it. Well, I think for a long time I'd actually avoided doing music for film because I wanted to be an artist, I suppose, as they say. So I spent my s sort of making whatever music I wanted and then eventually I was learning, sort of earning a living as a teacher, making sort of very little money interest spending the rest of my time just making music. You know, I had a band for a while that was just studying orchestration on my own, and then eventually I realized I kind of needed a career. I couldn't spend the rest of my life just being, you know, extremely broke, and what I was doing musically really lended itself to film. I think like in my heart I probably always wanted to be a film composer, but I think I was sort of afraid to do it for two reasons, one of which was that I would have been forced to make music that I really wasn't that excited to make. And I think the other one, which is perhaps more important but I had not really acknowledged, was that I was afraid I wouldn't be able to do it, you know, I wouldn't be able to have the like my skill set just wouldn't live up to what was needed for all that stuff, you know, and I sort of passed it off as just not wanting to but really I think there was a big fear of limit too, after having sort of studied orchestration just out of my own sort of curiosity for it. That was a huge asset, and sort of making the transition into film music. So I met a few people. The first person ended up working for him John Paisano, who's best known for scoring the maze runner films, daredevil and lots of other stuff, and I learned a lot of this sort of technical craft from him. He's really computer savvy, so I learned sort of like what computer I would need and what software I would need and how to set up. I was using logic, so how to set up my logic template so it would be, you know, prepared for the type of stuff that we were doing. I also sort of around then, met I had been sort of making trailer music just on my own and giving it to whoever I knew or had contact with in the trailer music world. So after doing that for a while, I had, you know, sent a bunch of music to this one person who was working at a big trailer music house at the time, and eventually she ended up taking on some pro Bono Gig for some reason. So she needed a composer who would work for free and I was happy to at the time. So I did this project for her and not long after that she ended up leaving that company and starting her own and she needed someone to do custom work for her and just to provide music for her, and that was really those two things, working for Pisano and then working for that company, new company called score board, were the beginnings of my career and they just kind of went from there. That's super cool. It sounds like you're at the right place at the right time, sort of. Yeah, I mean it took a while to get to that point, so it took two years of, you know, trying to do stuff and on the one hand that kind of seems like a long time, but at the same time it's also kind of not. You know, I'm sure you know many people end up going to work at remote control in turning there or whatever for years. That's Hans Zimmers studio and they'll just get coffee for two years before they do anything, you know, in music. And then the next thing I'll do is just print stems for several years and than they have to like claw our way up. So in a sense I kind of got to skip that step, although I mean there's many different ways to get...

...into the end of the industry. You said that your sort of method. It was sort of a tune to film already, so I was wondering what you sort of meant by that. So it wasn't my method, but I think just the the music that I was making, it was very cinematic. In my s I had a band that, I mean it was it was almost more film score than it was a rock band, and so I just kind of had this sensibility about that and I also I had always wanted a visual element and a storytelling element to the music, but I never really had that for that project and I think that was one of the big pieces that was missing from it. So yeah, I guess I've always loved the idea of creating a world through music and that's, you know, very much what film composers are doing. Yeah, and I think also instrumentationally, you have the flexibility to use really any instrument. Like in rock music, you know, people do incorporate other stuff, but it's ultimately centered around you know, drums, Guitar, based whatever, right, whereas in film music you can really base the music on anything you want. It wants more options, basically. Yeah, so that was something that I was always interested in, using sort of unusually instruments and creating, you know, different kind of sound palettes with that. So to just sort of get more specifically into your work on John Wick, you're listed your uncredited, it says, on IMDB, for John Wick Chapter two and you you are credited for chapter three, and so I was just wondering how you came to be involved with chapter two and what the difference was between the two projects, considering you're credited on one on not on the other. So the that project came about through my the trailer sort of company that I was working with called score board. So one of the things that I was doing with scoreboard at the time was taking classical pieces, popular classical pieces, in that case of Valdi, the seasons. For me to be able to create my own master I had to mock up the orchestration using all of my sample libraries instead of, you know, using some existing orchestral version or me having to go out and hire an orchestra myself. So basically what we would do is we would take these pieces, these classical pieces, that would mock them up and then I would trailerrize them, you know, adding huge explosions. Or if, like the VIVAALTI, for example, was just a small chamber ensemble that plays it, it's, you know, mostly strings and in fact it might not be all strings, and so the orchestration I did, if it was, instead of a small chamber string ensemble, it was a huge string section plus tons of brass and woodwins and percussion and choir and every whatever you could throw in there, and then I added tons of synths and explosion sounds and gigantic drums and all the stuff that trailers have and you give it this the like. Trailer Music has a specific structure to it. You know, they kind of all sort of sound the same. You've probably noticed as you've watched a thousand trailers. So you basically have to get that vivaldi piece to follow. That's that trailer structure and usually culminates in the end with a gigantic rise and then a big explosion or something. So I did that and I had that piece lying around for in fact, that one was a originally it was a custom project for something along several years before the John Wick thing happened. So they hired me to create this thing and they didn't use it and then I got to keep it and it was just sitting in my library for a long time. And then I guess there was a search to all the trailer music or the trailer production companies that people...

...are actually making the trailers. Send out music searches to all the different trailer music houses who represent composers who make that music. So they'll get a whole bunch of music from all these different people in the try all different stuff and they'll be like, Oh wow, I guess I really like this Vivaldi thing. Let's do something with that. So they like the Vivaldi one and I think I ended up having to do lots and lots of revisions for that to to give them what they needed, and ultimately they ended up using it. So then John Wick three came around, they wanted to do the same idea, so they chose a different vivali piece and use the sort of the same concept with it. And in that case, instead of it being this, this might be why I was credited on the third one and not on the second one, is they actually approached me and hired me to make a piece for them. Right, so they said we want this different Vali piece here, go take this and of commntioning you to do it exactly. And Yeah, that's how that happened. In luckily they liked what I did and they ended up using it, because still a lot of times they'll hire you and they'll, you know, give you your demo fee and say, man, we're going to do something completely different or whatever, will hire someone else to do the same thing that we wanted you to do. So if, yeah, really fortunately that they ended up working out. I think it's a both are really great trailers. Thank you, and that the music plays a big part in them, and I think trailers are really sort of interesting art form because they are kind of just commercials for your movie, but at the same time they also have to sort of function on their own as a piece of entertainment, and so I was wondering what you're sort of schedule for that sort of thing, like. What sort of timeframe are you guys on? And from what I heard from you, it's and you can correct me if I'm wrong, obviously, but it seems like they chose the music before they associated images with it. I was just wondering what. I've no idea what that process is like. Sure. Well, so I'll say that most of the time trailers are not custom pieces. So that was sort of unusual. Maybe five percent, five to ten percent of the time they'll do custom stuff, but a lot of the time it's just they they send out these searches to all the trailer music houses and ask for music. If they whichever one is their favorite, they'll just use that one. So typically trailer composers are not writing music for specific trailer. They just write stuff that sounds like trailer music in this style. Here's an action Q, Here's a drama Q, you whatever and yeah, so usually there's no relationship between the music and the whatever it's being made for until they're actually put together. In the case of custom work, when they were developing the trailer for John Wick, they probably, you know, put put a Pieceta trailer together. They may even tempt it with their own Vivaldi Cud or whatever. Maybe they use the John Wick to que that I had done and tempt that ind or something. So they had an idea of what they wanted and then they commission the piece for me to actually create it, you know. So yeah, I guess that's typically how that you know, the two options of how it works on. Another question that I was sort of wandering is you're also credited on a few other projects as an additional arranger, and I'm not first in how the music business sort of works, and I was wondering if you could explain what that is and how that relates to composing and stuff like that. So I guess I'll preface that with the way credits work for composers in film is sort of sort of silly. I guess there is in if you're working on like a visual effects team or any other facet of of the film, usually there will be some lead person who runs the WHO runs the thing, and then they'll be a team of people under them who are credited for whatever it was they actually did.

With music, you have the composer listed as the person who makes all of the music, basically, and that is sometimes the case, but most often not usually, because they're simply not enough time to score. You know, we might have four or six weeks to score an hour and a half of music or two hours of music, and it's just not enough time for one person to do it. So they bring on a team of or usually, you know, these big composers have a team of additional composers and they basically the the lead composure will delegate who scores what, you know. So basically you have a team of people actually writing the music to the film and it really depends on on the on the lead composer. How they do that. Some people just let the the additional composers do whatever they want as long as it's sort of in the right style. Other Times that they will delete. Composure will write a bunch of themes and they say, okay, whenever this person's in the scene, you have to use this theme. There or this instrumentation or whatever. It is right and I guess depending on how high up you are in the hierarchy of their team and depending on who they're working for, that may determine the credit that you get. So additional composer is the highest credit you can get under being the actual composer. Additional Ranger would be lower than that, or just like Midi Programmer, what all these other things. So a lot of the time when you see additional arranger or midi programmer or synth producer or something like that, it's usually people actually writing some of the music. However, that is not always the case. Some people do delicate, very specific things. So you might have the composer might actually sketch out the whole scene that they want, using all the melodies and whatever. They might sketch it out just with piano and flute or something like that. HMM, and they'll say okay, go take this thing and expand it so, you know' uosing a full orchestra on Samson whatever it needs for that thing. So that might be an example of an additional arranger or someone might this. This is very unusual, but some people use notation software to score like sabellious or finale. So those are that that software design specifically for creating parts for live musicians who are going to be recording it under recording session or performing it live, and the sounds that they have in those are typically not great, you know, but it will still it'll sound like, you know, a video game from the s probably in terms of the quality and realism of the sound. So someone might mock something up and have it sound like that and then send it off to a midi programmer to reprogram everything that they've done, using the best sounding sample libraries to give it, you know, the most realistic sound. So yeah, those are kind of the different things that or I guess maybe one other example would be if the composer has scored a scene and completed it and then additional arranger might be someone who the composer says, okay, this other scene needs very similar music, so I'm going to just give you this whole que, I'll give you my whole all the Midi stuff from it, and just rearrange it so it fits this other scene. You know, that's probably more common, let's say in television, where you just have episodic stuff and it's just recycling the same music every every episode. I'm like beats sort of placed over exactly. So you might need to extend something by a few beats or shorten it or make it bigger in a moment or smaller in a moment, whatever it is. That kind of reminds me of this one interview of Han Zimmer where he basically wasn't able to at first send the dark night score to the Oscars because he attached way too many people to it, just so many people that were on it. Yeah, it had to sort of consolidate that a bit and he was the one who...

...really kind of spearheaded the movement of creating music factories and I think, for better or for worse, you know, that was the like he's really known for having big teams who work for him and, you know, enable the quantity of music that he produces. You've also worked in television and I was wondering how you came to be involved with those projects and the difference in process for that then it come as compared to features. So the first big project I worked on was that how to train your dragons TV series, and that was working for John Paisano. I guess that came to me just because he was who I happened to be working for and that was the project he needed help with. In terms of the like how the process may be different for TV than film. For that project, ideally, aside from the so there are certainly there was more comedy in the show than there was in the films. So and and there wasn't a whole lot of comedy music in the film's so we kind of that was one place where there was like a big difference. I had to sort of we had to come up with a comedy sound for it, but in terms of like the big action stuff or the emotional stuff, ideally they wanted us to sound like John Powell. They wanted it to be as if jarn Powell was scoring that show. Maybe the only difference would have been just the amount of music that was required and the deadline is probably tighter. I would imagine Powell probably had a lot of time to work on those films. But I think that's sort of a that's different from a lot of other TV like if you're watching some drama or some procedural show, the music is going to sound different than a then thin film music does right, and so in that regard, process will be a bit different. There might be, you know, different sound pellettes you use. There's more of just like a bed of sound going under things and then like a big rise at the end of a cup of a scene or something, but in many ways I think it's probably pretty similar the process between you know, TV and film. And just to sort of speak specifically on your preferences as a composer, what sort of instruments do you like to use? Are you a big Simth Guy? And because obviously the demands of whatever you're working on are going to overshadow whatever you kind of want to do. Sure that's sort of what do you personally like to bring to the table? Well, my hero is John Williams, most of choice, most composer's heroes, hero is John Williams, although there are a lot of people whose hero is is Hans Zimmer and their sounds are very, very different. When I can, when I have the opportunity to, I like to bring music that is musically interesting, if that makes sense. You know, a lot of score these days is based on synth sounds, or even if it's not synth, maybe it's orchestral sounds. But it's creating some kind of texture. Usually harmonically it's not very complex. It might just be one chord going through the whole thing, just some drone and then some stuff on top of that drone. or it might be sort of like a pop style chord progression, like a chord progression that you might hear in a pop song, but is produced in sort of a cinematic way. When you listen to John Williams music and the music of that you know, the previous generations that wasn't the case. This sort of like drone. You know, pop chord progression thing is something that probably started maybe in the late s or certainly by the S, and then it's just become more and more extreme ever since. So when I can, I like to bring...

...complex harmonies and really, you know, fancy or cut orchestrational stuff with string runs and doing things that that the orchestras actually do right, the using an orchestra to do things that it really wasn't intended to do and using music as the tool to tell the story instead of technology as the tool. And, as you were saying, sort of especially these days, there's no way around, you know, being tied to the technology but I just I mean music can do so much without technology and I devoted my life to the pursuit of music, not to the pursuit of computers and sense and stuff. So yeah, I think that's that's the thing that I hope to bring to the table and once in a while I actually get to do that. Good choice for who to make your musical hero. Well, thanks, I'm glad you agree. This is sort of wrapping up a little bit. We have asked every one of our guests how the coronavirus has affected them and, depending upon what department you're in, whether that's more of a behind the scenes or on set work, it's been to varying degrees to which they've not been able to do their work, and so I was wondering how that's affected your workflow and positive or negative stuff that's brought you. The biggest effect has just been less work, because there's less stuff being produced. However, I've been like once it also want to lockdown began, I expected to have no work at all and I was really surprised that there is stuff still happening. Part of that has to do with music. Is still needed for anything that was in production prior to lockdown beginning, but also there is some stuff still being produced, in particular animation. So I'm working on a film right now, an animated film, and I think that animation is really thriving right now because everyone can sort of work from home and in terms of other sort of effects, I work from my home studio and most composers work just independently from a studio, so you don't have to worry about going into going on set where they're supposed to be a hundred people and not that not being possible or having to find a way around that. Also, I don't have a team of people that I work with. Some composers, you know, like Hans or whatever, they'll have all these people who are in their studio and engineers and, you know, assistance and all this stuff. Since I don't have that, I didn't have to find workarounds for that, but I imagine a lot of people dead. There are things like doing live recording sessions that I couldn't really do, or if I did, it would have to be just a one person recording remotely from there having to you someone who has their own recording set up. So that's still possible, but I haven't needed to do a whole lot of that this year. The I think there was just one recording session that I did that way. Other than that, I think because of my my traditional workflow, just how I typically work, coronavirus hasn't affected me that much. I think, just aside from the availability of work to be done, to quantitative has been effected more than quality. Yeah, definitely. Well, that's really great information to hear. Thank you so much for coming on answer answering our questions. Sure, and so that was Richie Cohan and he worked on the trailers for John Wick, chapter two and three, and thanks for coming on. Thanks to Richie Cohan for talking with us. He was super cool to talk with. Is a little bit of a short interview, but I'm...

...sure it was it. It was like twenty minutes, some of that. That's a respectable length. No, but she he's a busy guy. He's got a get a slate and he said, parth, I'll give you twenty minutes Max. We'll talk about solo in out exactly and as you just heard. As you just heard, we did in fact talk about Solo, a star wars story, the best idea put to film. Perhaps everybody wants a Han Solo movie, not starring Harrison for parth is a part of an advertising team. What? You're part of the Solo advertising team. You're just like really late to the game. You're trying to get look a research Jan's, I mean popularity the rest of the Solo advertising team. I'm really were completely terrible at your job and and am directly responsible for the fucking failure of my movie. But that's neither here nor there's going to do work for Disney right, let's fuck. We don't have anything to cut to. I can't use that that trope anymore. So, Walt Disney or test medic the rumor? Can you confirm them? The Synopsis For this movie, which we didn't get into before the interview, is after returning to the criminal underworld to repay a debt, John Wick discovers that a large bounty has been put on his life. Hmmch just succinct accordopsis tend to be. I just watched it and so I can corroborate that synopsis. HMM. And so I guess you want to know some production history. If you if you have a right in front of you, like if you have to get it from Wikipediacom and then read it for Batim, then the no interest. But if it's original, if you can just like Improv let's see what I can do. Well, in February two thousand and fifteen, the directors of the first film, chats to hell s key and David Leach, had begun development on a John Wick sequel. The president or the CEO of Lionsgate, John filtharm felt feldheimer felt Teimer, said that they viewed John Wick as a multipu title action franchise, and Derek Colstad, the screenwriter for the first film, returned for the second film, and the sequels greenlit. Originally it was to be released in the middle of two thousand and sixteen, but then it ended up getting pushed back to February two thousand and seventeen. Keanu reeves trained in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and they filmed again mostly in New York City, although as the film takes place in Rome, they filmed in Rome. A majority of the film they filmed in Rome. We live in New Jersey. This day we were the home of John Wick. For A bit. Keanu reeves was here. It's true. He lived in my house. For them really it was. It was a time it was like a foreign exchange student. He just like like this is something people don't really know about Keanu Reeves. They're all like wow, he's such a nice guy, he's worked on these really great, influential big movies, and what they aren't talking about, they don't know, is that he's a huge fan of Solo as well. So we just we were laughing it up together. So so you're telling me connor reese is featured on the interview with John Way. Two for other composer. Well, I mean he wasn't there, but but in spirit he was also supportive of the maybe soloh yeah, no, I mean when he was living at my house, as I have a direct quote here from Keanu Reeves. Do that. Yes, please, I'm gonna do I'm going to include my impression also. Oh, this will be lovely. I love the movie star Wars. Oh, excuse me, all right, re set that. I love the movie Solo, a Star Wars Story. It's a great film. Watch it. That's an order from me, Keanu Reeves, after in such films as the Matrix and the John Wick Franchise, and have a nice day. I thought and quoteking just then.

You know, I just thank you for listening to that, like audio clip. No, I just Oh, that was an audio clip. I've recorded him saying that he didn't know I was wearing a wire is strapped to my chest, or saying you were wearing a wig. Let it. Let it be known that I'm not wearing a wig. Wait, part you can see me, Emma, do you know something? Well, I mean, we're social distance podcasting. I can't reach over and tug on those hair strings of yours. Do you wanted? HMM, if you could, would you maybe you can join me and Keanu Reeves in talking about Solo? Speaking of Keanu Reeves, let's get back to John Wick chapter two. We better story for the topic of the day. A Solo. It's run its course. Let it die, no further mention required. We'll see about that. anyways. Would you like to know the budget for this film how much it made? So the budget was forty million US dollars. But how'd you know that? But the box office was a hundred seventy one point five million US dollars. That's four times their investment. That's called capitalism. But yeah, it has pretty much double the budget of its predecessor and made more money and I guess business baby. Now we can get into our thoughts. I read some. I read some one summer refuse. I didn't copy any of them down, but I just wanted to take away my the unanimous decision and there was a lot more people who didn't like this movie compared to people and they felt a lot stronger than people who didn't like. Oh, dogs die in this movie. Spoilers. Someone said they were like this franchise is a strange infatuation with killing animals, and I was like, no animals die in this movie. Like that happened once last time, so quit bring up old wounds. Reviewer, mean a hold wounds. John Wick to parallel. Can I stayed to Gripe with the film? Yeah, it's not just a life gripe. It's yeah, I'm not. I'm on topic. Or films decision to not market Solo properly. Moving on. Um. So John Wick, the third one, is called John Wick parabellum. Is that correct? It's called John Wick part calory re Caelum. It was originally called John Wick parabellum because movie studios have some weird aversion to calling the third film in the franchise, the third film. Thank you. That was part of my complaint. But was I thought it was like an Ali an aliens, alien three kind of thing. Well, what could alien three really call itself? Better, I think a better example would be blade, blade to blade trinity or what, because there's like an inherent marketability to being like the thing you liked again, here's the second time, but then the third one you need like you need to put it a new spin on it. Okay, it's like if someone comes in to the movie theater and they see John Wick Semicolon, no colon parabellum, they're going to be like, I'll know this John Wick guy is, but I doubt that there's any past films that we would have needed as knowledge to move forward with this. But its see John Wick three, they're going to be like, well, I don't have the necessary skill set to enjoy this. So it's manipulating the moviegoers. I hate it when things are not kept in like line. Yeah, like it's really annoying to me. Like if John Wick to wasn't named John Wick Chapter Two, it was, it was named like John Wick some other Latin subtitle. Right, it'd be less bothersome to me because the only name annuity. It only named it John Wick Chapter Three parabellum after there was a big outcry about it and then renamed it...

John Wick chapter at first it was John mcparabellum. HMM. It's just it's just like if you have, if you introduce an numeracle element, stick to it. Yeah, if, like one of the episodes in the skywalker saga, was like no, we aren't episode nine, we're just like we're condemning that ordering system. Were just the rise of skywalker. Now you'd be like, let me say it's like Solo, Solo, to Solo, the next one right, like wide, just solo three, just be great. They're supposed to be a trilogy of Han Solo film part. This has to be a joke. No, I'm not joking. Why? Who asked for this? Not Me. It's me. Want to hear something sad. Part. Is it about Star Wars? It's about Solo. More specifically, I saw so low because this is actually about supposed to be about John Wick Chapter two. I saw solo twice in the theaters, two days in a row, because the first stay like eight dollars that it made. I'm part of the problem. Yeah, is the first time I fell asleep and then I was like, damn, I got to fill in the gaps and I don't want to. The world's an opportunity to spoil the great darth maul mix up, so I went back the next night before the Internet had a chance to foil my my plans. I actually don't hate solo with fine small shit at the end is pretty stupid. Oh, we should probably get back to our main point. Do you have any other reviews, or should we get into our our thoughts on the film? which again to our thoughts? The takeaway from the reviews, which just people's main complaint, was we liked the first one and we still like Keanu reeves a lot. It's not his fault, but this movie has no story, and the first one got away with it because it introduced like a new style of action film, but this one barely expands upon that. So we're mad at it. One Star. Well, let's I'll ask you then what. I've seen this movie many, many times. Again, I saw this. Give me a real ballpark number, an approximation on how many times you see I honestly don't know, but like like over twenty. HMM, maybe, I don't know. Well, good, okay. So here's the thing. With such a big Fan of the first movie. So then when a second movie was announced, I was like this is awesome. When the when the second movie was coming out, I got one of my friends, one of our shared friends, the we I showed him the first John Wick and he was like Ah, this is awesome. And then, and then we actually what we had planned was like, okay, I was going to go to his school house right after school watch the first John Wick and then we'd go to the theater together to see the second one. The second one, sure, and I went to his house. We watched the first movie, Grand According to plan thus far, exactly. And then and my dad and I had bought the tickets already, so we had the tickets in our hand, right. But then, was there like a plane crash or something? No, we get to the theater, we get dropped off at the theater. Wow, and then the usher's like, are you seventeen? And you're you are. You know what we were? Sixteen. You were sixteen. Isn't it so stupid that you can't see rated our movie on supervised until age seventeen? So ridiculous. I mean like even especially with like John Wick, like there's nothing in there that's gonna like scar fifteen year old anymore than if they were seventeen. But part there was like almost nudity in this one. It's true. I was surprised when that lady started getting undressed. I was like, all right, this movie is about to earn it's it's our rating. And then they didn't capital. I think it's tasteful. I like it's taste. So I always wonder when it's like right on the edge. I was like, I wonder if the actress just like was like, I would love to be in this movie, but I won't...

...show my boobs for you. And then, so are you saying that all Italian women will show their boobs to anyone? Always, not Italian women. Took a broad generalization. Italian films are like very breast focused. I'll say this. Their European European beaches are topless. From my limited experience, I went to span as a like a twelve year old, and boy were my eyes opened. So, anyways, we were we were turned down by the usher and I had to call my dad. Oh, and toastal walk up Jame Hen and you, can you watch the movie with us? And he was like no, I can't, because my because because my brother had something to do and he had to be there. And so then I called like a family friend of ours who I had seen the first film with. HMM, was like a fad of my dads, and he was like they twenty one there, like younger than a little younger than my dad, but like they're an adult, perfect and and I was like part of a lot of goals. You want to watch a movie with me and my child friend. We went to the nine o'clock something showing of it. Oh wait, did you have to do the next showing? Or did he because because he couldn't come for that showing? So did you an Alex? Just like look at each other and that might do for two hours. No, we went to a different movie. So we went to the McDonald's. We walk there. That was about this closest. Waited for my dad to be able to pick me up. MMM, him home, played in my i Gu safelate it's meant. I meant to say played video games in my basement, but I did just like play it in your pace. We had a little play US begging the question. What were they doing down there? We were excited to see a film. MMM, and that film was Solo, Star Wards Story. It gets better every time. Yeah, this is like the new subplot of the podcast. It's like whenever the other person isn't prepared, like Spring Solo on them. So we so, we waited for like two hours, walk then went to go see the film and we were. I guess we'll just get into my initial thoughts. When I first saw it, we were blown away. We were well, not blown away, but we were. We thought we were thoroughly entertained, and I think you probably just like weren't like mentally prepared for it because, like, you were sixteen compared to seventeen. Well, it's okay to go if you have an adult with you. Yes, which you did, because you have a lot of old men in your life. Can you confirm that? I can. How it is you think I got into the marketing team for Solo? Yes, and you work for Disney. We got it. Sorry, continue with your initial thoughts. You were pleased. I I really like this movie. I think. Do you think it's better than the first one? Expands upon what I really liked about the first movie. I think pacing wise it's not as good. Well, I mean, if it's a quality film, I'll be yelling that just in the middle of the theater, but I'll only be in the film at all if I'm over seventeen, right, whichi's in our rated film, which I'm not. You will not break the law part that's news to break. HMM. I'm a child. I know I look mature, but I'm thirteen. Oh, and so all those rated our movies we went to together sowk illegal. So your lawyer this will be in contact with my lawyers and, wild words, the lawyers on my payroll. Bitch, will work out a settlement agreement and I'll promise to not expose Walt Disney's crowd generically frozen body under Walt Disney world in an Orlando, Florida if you pay me off with a lot of hush hush money. Okay, well, we can discuss this afterwards.

So my thoughts on the film? Yeah, yeah, to be quite frank, having just watched the I know, I know, having just watched John Wick, we said I liked it a lot. This one I liked less, HM, significantly less. I hate to agree with the Amazon reviewers, because they're like the enemy of this show. We are laughing at them, not with them. I think there's some validity to the statement of it's a lot like the it's a lot like what you love from the first one, but just like a new version of that. For me I think it's the same. You're right there. It was like one of the directors. Oh where the two directors in the first one? Well, yeah, if the first director cats to house key and David Leach with the directors are the first one. But they can't? You not have two listed directors? And then against some roots. So David Leach was only credited as a producer on that movie. Well, you can. They kind of change the rules a bit, I think because of the colored brother sounds like such a dumb technical caldy. Or what about the witch? How Skis? Do you have to be like a common name, or you have to be siblings? I have no clue. David Leach went to direct atomic blond and then to direct deadpool to actually might have done deadpool to first, I can't remember, honestly. So he kind of went off on his own direction, but that's hell. Sky Stuck it out with John Wick and I think it found its tone more. I think this is a more funny movie than the first one, and not in a like we're going to throw jokes in fer no reason, kind of just like the world is kind of inherently a little amusing, and I think that works in its favor. And I I like the the look of this movie. I think it goes deeper into the like Neon, sort of incredibly stylistic view of which I really dig. So I was in for that. And I just think the action is just so much better. Yeah, I agreat like the opening action set piece of the car chase was freaking awesome and then like the the final battle, I guess in like the the illusion museum. I thought that was like that also freaking awesome. I think my problem it's just how like in so many ways it's very similar to the first one and it didn't have with a sequel, you either have to like do everything better from what you did the first time or you have to reinvent it and move in a new direction. I guess most of my problems are with the story, but we'll get to that later. And I think the story again, I think, much like the first one, it's what it needs to be. HMM, it does lose steam in the in the middle of the movie. I think this one is more visually impressive. Oh for sure. I mean that that whole like montage sequence, which one are where so many montages? Well, the montage with like the all of the assassins trying to kill him and the Pencil. Yes, not. I like the Pencil called back, I think. I think what's great about this movie is that it creates a whole bunch of different visual scenarios. MMM, and it does what a lot of modern action movies don't, which is fucking use your surroundings. Yes, and if you look at something like Jackie Chan or something like that, if you ever look at his movies, you the reason his action seek fought. The one reason, but one of the reasons, that his action sequences are so good is because they can't just be placed anywhere in the...

...movie. There's specific to that location, specific to that location, to the items of that location, and it's it's all very specific and that makes it that much more engaging in my eyes. From Party one who I saw in this movie, yes, our friend Luca Mosca. Yes, wasn't that fun? You want to know a comedic beat I really liked in this movie. Sure, it made it made me laugh. I saw it. I was like when John Wick and common, you know the rapper, he's in this movie. They're on opposite he's so good in this movie. I love it. Sure, and is he in some like crime show? Or am I crazy? I'd be the sink are Wi fi? Can you know? You Know Iout you how you missed that? I know what I did last week. Yeah, so we don't know what show Commons in, but will answer that question next week. But the beat where him and John Wick are walking on different levels and then they have to be like that. Yet answer yes, doesn't. That's all good. Everybody in the theater was laughing when that happened. It's great. I think it's awesome. Also, I love the dramatic tension of them being in really crowded places and like wanting to kill each other, like on the subway is a good example, and them just like exchanging tense glances. In the last movie I was like, every time they break out into a fight, like all the entire like public disperses, but in this movie I was happy that, like when they fall in the subway, there's a bunch of people around, and then they just like stood off to the side, because that's what you would do to randos for trying to murder each other in a public place. Is You wouldn't get involved, you would let that run its course and then leave as soon as possible. Yeah, and that's what they did, I think. I think with this movie it's it's worst action sequences in the catacombs when he has an assault rifle. So Patrick Williams, if anybody, any of our listeners, know of them, he makes youtube videos and he did a video rating all of the John Wick action sequences. Hmmm, he made a very good point, which is that assault rifles just should not be in a John Wick movie because every time that they're there, you are you're the fun of the John Wick, of a John Wick action sequence is the specificity of it and assault rifles are too easy. Your opponent's going to be too far away for it to be cool and it's going to be too quick. Yes, is that's what I sawt rifles are good at exactly. So I think there's that one awesome moment where he liked uses a shotgun and like pin somebody to the floor, reloads and then shoots them. Yeah, I think that's an awesome like there's some awesome moments in there, but I think midway through the movie it has a little bit of a slump. But I think that on the whole, I enjoy this a lot more than the first because it has a more of a fun tone to it. It's not like a marks, not like my wife is dead anymore. It's like my wife is dead and I've moved on to they the variety. There's a higher variety of action sequences that are well done and then three. I like that it sort of builds the world out more and it's kind of this fun, almost retro looking like, you know, with like telephone operators and like. So with the telephone operator thing, I went at first happened. I was like this, John Wick take place in the S, and then I was like no, no, no, they have cell phones. And then I also in that moment, noticed none of the characters have iphones. They all have like weird flip phones that's a verizon wireless on top. So I feel like there's a partnership there. Also Ryan Johnson in a queuing or not Q and a and a video, I think for variety said that you are only allowed to use iphones in a movie if they're not got used by the bad guy, I think. But John Wick. I mean that's funny and good information. But yeah, John Wick pulled out...

...his cracked phone and it had verizon wireless ran across the top and I was like a product placement, product placement, Geez, not my more brand endorsement. I guess you want to know my favorite action beat. It was when John Wick pushed his also, this movie answered the question of where it his second cargo? It's when. Oh No, it's when you got our first part. But no, no, no, but this was with the second car, I think. No, know, it was. Well, it was the first car. Yes, when he pushes the door out and then slams on the brakes and then the motorcycle guy goes through it. Yeah, that was sick. Yeah, this was really a reunion for all the lost cars from the first one. Yeah, the gang got back together, but he destroyed all of them. Yes, Hey, wait, wait, does it really repair the car for John Wick? Three? Well, we'll get into that want way. He He. Can you answer a question for me? Hmm, what's the name of the main antagonist, Santonio, Dantonio Dantonio. He's like Hey, I have this marker, the marker. My problem with the marker was it was for like the impossible task and I thought that was kind of like a throwaway line that they thought they could use to like thread into the original content, much like how in Star Wars and new hope they're like the clone wars and then they made a movie and then they made it into a whole movie. So I thought that was kind of patchwork. But here's where I was confused. He kills the sister and we're only like an hour into the movie and I was like, where do we go from here? Why does he want to kill John Wick now? Because he wants to tie up the loose ends. Well, there's two reasons. One is the story reason of he needs to tie up loose ends because he wants to be head of the FAM, or not the family, but he wants to go with the takeer seat at the table. Yeah, and the other reason is because we need a movie to see a part of the third one. No, he's dead, I know, but they kept talking about how he was gonna like rule New York and stuff, and I was like, well, there's enough time to discuss that in this movie. So, because, he because. So what happens is he, I know, he gets shot in the fucking face. He's gone, he's Donezo. So so the the next movie is sort of the ramifications of that and the kind of why I it is kind of patchwork and it is kind of like a contrivance. Part of the reason this movie doesn't, and sort of a story sense, work as well as the first movie is at the first movie. The first movie has a very clear motivation. Also, it has the origin story, which always helps moving forward. Just yeah, and but it's like we can last. You have your clear, clear motivation of once they kill his dog, you're like, okay, I buy this mine. But this movie doesn't have that. Well, I agree. What it does have that I like is that chats to house Gi is talk sort of at length about how he likes he doesn't like in action movies, how things don't come at a cost really to the main characters. They like sort of go down their paths and then once they're done, they're like able to like step back and be like Oh, like, we're fine, you know, hmm. But that's not how it should work like it's just you'd like, once you're in something, you only go deeper and deeper, and so I kind of like that, like as a result of the first movie happening, he has to like stuff from his past will come back to haunt him. Yeah, especially since in the first movie they kept saying like if you come back, like you're back for good, and he's like no, just doing this last job, and then they're and then like the warnings were true, and that's what I like, is that it is kind it is a contrivance, I'm not going to lie, but it is also in keeping with everything that happened in the first movie and it's like, I really like it when you go further. You kind...

...of said that like you have two choices when making a sequel, which is to do reinvent the wheel or do it, or to do everything you did last time, the better, and I actually kind of disagree. I don't think this does the same thing. I think because it has the same elements, but that's because there's John Wick, is a very limited series. There's does it's not that much you can do with a hit man, you know, fundamentally. But what it does not it doesn't kill another dog. It doesn't like. I'm so happy he doesn't get a new wife and kill her or kill current dog. That, to me would have been redoing it. But like, this is sort of like as a consequence of whatever happened in the first movie. That directly feeds into the plot of this next movie. And you know, I think the best sequels do that, like the dark knight does that. God father part to one of the more underrated sequels in my eyes, guardians of the galaxy volume two does that and it's sort of it doesn't have the same aime structure the first movie does, which is why I like it. I was just about to make a comment about how he like doesn't kill women as easily as he kills men, because that like I think she's deaf, because she does sign language. This whole time. He doesn't kill her, but he kills everyone else like so effortlessly and en he leaves her to like bleed out and die. She had a stab wound, she had a broken arm to stab with through her hand. She was fine, I guess. No, I'm not saying as a bad thing, I'm just an an observation. John Wick respect women so so you. We can't criticize him for that. No, and while this is a action franchise led by a man, directed by men, written by men, starring mostly men and being commented by two Menim it's a feminist franchise. When we're like forty minutes in the movie and the woman cuts herself in the hot tub, I was like, she's going to kill herself so he can't and then John Wick is going to be punished. When then I was like, but that's so stupid, because she needed to be dead, but she just got killed indirectly by him, but because he didn't deliver the finishing blow, he's going to be hunted, but that he shot her in the head, not to worry, and just proving that John Wick has no problem killing. Well, I mean the damage was done. He was just like further damaging a corpse. It does what it needs to do and it sets up a very interesting thing for the sequel because it sets up that everybody in New York is a hit man and is coming from John Wick. It alluded to that at the end and I'm wondering what your thoughts on that are and what your excitement level is for the third one. Well, I liked the bit about how all the homeless people work for Laurence Fishburn. Yes, isn't that great? And then to expand upon that even further by when Winston and him are talking in that public place and then everyone like like tips their hand and is like yeah, we're hit ment to you've won our run beach. So I wonder how he's gonna get out of this pickle, because it seems like everyone in the world wants to kill him. But is that the consequence or breaking the continental rules? Yeah, are you ready to give a star rating? I get this an eight int you have the first one in eight five. It didn't I maybe, maybe this is an eight point five. I think. I think on the whole it's about as good, but I enjoy this a lot more and despite it's like narrative flaws, I guess I didn't love the antagonist. I thought he was kind of he is, he's pretty bland. I thought it was a broad out of nowhere. We didn't get to know him. I was nervous at the beginning that it we were just going to be fighting the brother to the ridge to Vigo and another. Isn't that so funny, though I'm so glad, glad they came to a piece. They put their differences aside. The action sequences were awesome, but just something was missing for...

...me. I'm on board and I enjoyed myself. I'M gonna give it a six and a half. Fair. All right, tell us about our next episode. It's going to it's going to be John Wick part three, parabelm, but hope unless is me calls May and they're like the hog, you can't work for US anymore. You can't work on marketing solo to no, no, no, just the opposite. Actually, they're like, Barth, can't be out there promoting lionsgate films. Can't be out there promoting your word is too strong. You your outreach, your impact, it's too great. We're going out of business. We're killing us. Actually, our next episode is going to be on the highly underrated film, I would say, Solo, Star Wars Story. Do we want to do it after all this build up? I don't know. I kind of want this to be a running joke, but I don't know right yeah, because once we actually review solo and then maybe when we like graduate college and we're like maybe it's time to retire. This or if one of US dies under mysterious circumstances, we can do it. Wait when we graduate college. Maybe when I graduate college, because Guess What, folks, Trent is trying to take a draft year. Yeah, leave of absence. Baby, class of two thousand and twenty four. Part and I are breaking up only in the eyes of Ruckers, you know, versity, because they can't keep us apart. It's a sad moment, but we will prevail. Part is officially my wise elder before he was just wise. And your birthday January five, capricorn. You, you are older than me, bummer. Well, twenty. Oh, so we're both alive for eleven. I'm glad. How is yes, it could have been either of us, I suppose. So where were you? Part? You Remember? Um, I was with my uncle. Actually, I was with him before he see, you were playing. You were in the north tower. I wasn't in that. No, no, like he was. He was like, you're misunderstanding what my my joke here is I'm you know the jokes that your skin is Brown, so that you were somehow involved in the September eleventh attacks. Somebody wants asked me if I knew people that were and you're like wrong country. No, I was like hell, yeah, if somebody, if somebody, if somebody comes up and asks me. Yeah, why not? Yeah, in you're just encouraging there the racism exactly. And on that note, we'll see you next week.

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