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Episode 11 · 2 years ago

GONE GIRL (2014) with Editorial Consultant Vashi Nedomansky A.C.E.

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Parth and Trent discuss their thoughts on breakfast. They also interview Vashi Nedomansky, a multi-talented artist who worked on Gone Girl.

Edited by Parth Marathe

Part, I think we should rename this cold open. What do you currently ingesting, rather than what have you been eating, because I guess they're one and one in the same. But I guess answer the question what's inside your body, what have you what have you put in your pie hole recently? I just recently had lunch. My mom made some Indian food. There is an easy joke to be made there about how, for for you, it would just be called food, but I think, I think we're above that level of comedy. Do you agree? It needed a dressing, but we were a highbrow comedy. Comedy podcast. Craft Services is for intelligent people, let it be known. Part and I were just discussing how he doesn't eat breakfast and how that's blasphemy and how this morning he started his day with a tall glass of milk. And it's not so much a tall glass I I have. I have a like a Mug, like sure you know how people have coffee in a Mug. I have milk in a Mug and I drinking straight up. Is it is it cold or room room temp or or no? I am about it up. I heat it up. Oh really, I was kind of kidding. That's no I've found that that's very uncommon. But my I mean my parents, would always give me like a warm glass of milk when I was a kid. What when you couldn't go to bed because that's the only content. No in in the morning. Like apparently it has a very relaxing element to it. I've I've enjoyed it. I've enjoyed my time with it. On the topic of breakfast, my parents, when I went to like kindergarten to like maybe like fourth or fifth grade, I would have breakfast and be like an egg or single egg, well, a hard boiled egg, or like I had I had a period in middle school where all I would eat was like one hard boiled egg and I enjoyed it. Yeah, no, I enjoyed it too, until I reached sixth with your branches point, I don't know. I well, the thing is maybe not six Grad maybe seventh grade, because like, at least at our school, and seventh grade you have to get you're in school by like thirty. So then it's like, I'm not hungry at all, you know, at that time, yeah, you're still you're still digesting dinner from the night prior exactly. And and so then it became a thing of I don't want to eat in the morning, and then that just carried over into high school and college, even though by college, like I was waking up at nine. So there's my life story with breakfast. But now that our classes are at like zero am why? I don't why aren't you back the Breakfast Bandwagon? You'd think you'd be hungry again. I'm not. I don't know. I mean now it just your creature of habit. I'm a thin, thin, very underweight man. Yeah, I've known, I've seen you. Okay. Well, you didn't need to, okay, but for you so big and strong, it's the milk. I guess what happened is I just got used to not having breakfast. So now it's not it's not like I'm hungry, but I'm like Ah, I like legitimately don't feel hungry in the morning. I just go straight to lunch. But I hear that's very uncommon, speaking of our bodies having to adjust for for food they're not used to. At school I was a vegetarian for two semesters and then I came back amidst quarantine, and my family is carnivorous, or I'm neivorous. Excuse me, and...

...they were like hey, Trent, the since the world is ending, you can't be a picky, pretentious asshole who doesn't eat poultry anymore. So you're going to need to man up and eat chicken every once in a while. To be clear, Trent is still a picky, pretentious person. He's just he just eats poultry now. Yeah, that's the only thing that's changed. So that was fine. I was eaten eating white meat, no questions asked, but we stopped buying red meat in the house because it there's like more of an environmental impact then, and I guess there's less health justification because it's a straight up bad for you. So then the other day my friend was like, Hey, do you want to go eat a five guys burger, which I hadn't done since high school, but I was really good at eating large sums of meat back in the day. So I accepted the challenge and I went there and I'm a Peckish Guy, but a few bites in I'm like something is wrong, like there is a demon doing jumping Jackson my stomach. But I just drowned the sorrows and like French fries and milkshake and I thought everything would be all right, and then I was like let's let's just go home, and on the way home, while he was driving, I threw up in the passenger seat. Young but he so we were driving and I was like hey, this is happening, pull over, and he was like don't throw up out my window. Your stomach acid is going to like melt my paint job, and I was like, I think, I think you're a bad friend to the unnamed person, Zach Basil, who was a guess on this show. Oh, that sack of a seal. So and then I was like, all right, I need an immediate solution, then, if you're gonna not allow me this very accessible option, and he handed me a thin plastic bag and was like here you go, and so I use that and then I was like hey, can you pull over so I can throw this away, and then he was like no, just hold it until we get there. So then I just added a war I had a suspended warm bag of my own vomit. Just chilling sitting shotgun with me. That that's a lovely story. Yeah, it's a cool Atlantic boat. Doing hear what I've eaten? Yes, I just had a funny thing about this show. Part is sometimes when we record in the morning, I like will have not eaten anything yet and there will be there will be a pressure for me to like prepare something and I actually think about the entertainment value of what I'm making so it will be better for discussion on here. So I prepared a smoothie, because I'm a kind do I hear all the ingredients? I do. One Banana, several scoops of peanut butter, some whole milk, there was some honey and usually I put in some vanilla extract so to like spice things up, but we were out of that, so I just like poured in some coffee creamer and it was delicish. I'm a professional smoothie maker. My Dad is nicknamed me the Smoothie King because at the restaurant I work at, pretty much my only responsibility is to answer the phone and make Caucasian passer buyers there smoothies lovely. Did you know that my girlfriend hates peanut butter? Oh, why? I mean, if she was allergic, that would be the obvious. She's not allergic. She's not allergic, or at least...

...she's not like allergic where she's going to go into like anaphylactic shot off thing, but she just says that any time she has peanut butter she's just always nauseous. So she just hates it and she can't really like she hates the smell. My mom hates artificial peanut butter like she hates reese's cups or or she hates peanut butter flavored ice cream, anything like that. But she are you. She likes regular peanut butter. Are you a thin or a Chunky Guy? Thin? Oh, yes, as a my part. Another thing is when I record in we better keep this podcast breathe, because when I record in my basement I have to unplug the fish tank and because their filter makes too much noise. And so if you have any thoughts that you think need sharing, just think about the fish, because it they could be taking their final breath while you talk about Solo, a star wars story or whatever you think is important. While I'm glad that you brought up Solo, I think it has a lot to do with our topic of discussion today, gone girl, which is gone girl. Yeah, those two movies. Some are really similar once you start to think about it. Well, I guess now that we brought up the movie, we should just cut to the intro. Welcome back to craft services, where we took up black try right, I'm going to leave that in. Start out that welcome back to craft services, where we talk about movies. Each week we discuss a different film and hopefully have an interview with a crew member of that film to talk with us about their experience. This week we're going to be talking about gone girl, and with us we have its editorial consultant, Vashi Need Omansky. What a joy he was. It was pleasant, it was fun. Part the junior yourself. I had a good time. I won't lie. I didn't know this going in, but Vashi's father. Well, first of all, Vashi is a was a professional hockey player, and so is Vash he's Dad. So that's two two generations part. Did you ever play in the NHL or, like you've plans to? I'd rather not comment on my future career plans, but yeah, I would love. I would love to hear what Vashi has to say about his career. Awesome transition que the interview. Hello, everybody, we're here with Vashi Nidomansky. He's a very talented editor WHO's consulted on such projects as house of cards, Deadpool and our film for today, gone girl. We're incredibly excited to be talking with him. So welcome to the show. Thank you, guys. I really appreciate you having me on and love to share with you some tales from the trenches and see where it takes us. I guess the first question that we have is for our listeners that don't know. You've had quite the history to and path towards becoming a film editor. You defected from Chalk Czechoslovakia during the Cold War, you played professional hockey and now you are a film editor. So if you could explain how that path came to be? Yeah, sure. I was born in Czechoslovakia during the Cold War. My father was a hockey player as well. He...

...he defected and luckily obviously took me with him and so he came to North America. I grew up in Toronto and Detroit and played hockey as well growing up. I played ten years professionally. My father actually was just inducted into the hockey hall of fame last year, so that's a huge honor for him and obviously for me. I followed in his footsteps, but my path to film editing and becoming a filmmakers actually directly. He's directly responsible for it because one day, one day in Detroit, he was the first star of a game and he won an old vhs camera and a VCR deck that you would carry around on your shoulders back in the s and he would weigh about fifty pounds. He gave it to me and said, I don't know, like film some family gatherings or whatever. So I started filming. I was twelve years old, and then I realized that I had another VHS player at home. So I understood that I had one tape on one side one on the other, and I didn't like what I shot, I could change it by recording from one tape to the other tape. So then I started shooting everything and then transferring it to another vhs to make the tape that I would show my friends or family. So I figured out editing it twelve by accident, because I wanted to change the order of the shots that I had filmed. So at that point I started filming, you know, birthday parties, holidays, and then in school I asked my English teacher could I make a short film instead of the Book Report, and it was a pretty proust of teacher and he said Yeah, go ahead. So I cast my friends, shot a short film in my backyard on the VHS, edited it on to VHS has added music and sound effects, and then I got to show that to the classroom and I'm like, you know, fourteen years old and I had made a short film, cut it, showed it to the class and I think the coolest part that every filmmaker gets is that if you get a good response to anything that you've created and you share with someone, then that really just pumps you up and gets you excited and you want to do more. So I had a really good interaction with filmmaking right out of the gate. Didn't know that much at that point, but I knew what I wanted to achieve, and so since the age of twelve I've been slowly refining my process and trying to become a better filmmaker, better storyteller, and that's something that I try and do every day. So did you play and in the NHL or where'd you play? For USSIAN hockey? I played with I was in the La King's organization in the New York Islanders. I played for ten years. I spend most of my time in the minors in the American Hockey League and the IHL and the East Coast League. I played three games with the New York islanders just during preseason and exhibition. So that was it. So I never got a full stint in the NHL but I was with their organizations for ten years trying to get up there. But it was it's a huge leap from even the best minor league hockey to the NHL. So did you have any in between jobs, between hockey and film editing, or was that a straight transition? Well, when I was I was playing in Los Angeles and I was living in La I moved to La in one thousand nine hundred and ninety four and at that point I was playing hockey and, you know, writing scripts and cutting short things for myself. But what I did do is in the summers I was acting. I would go out for this is a point. There was a lot of hockey commercials and over eight or nine years during the summertime I booked about twelve or thirteen national spots which are, you know, like the big commercials, and it was pretty interesting because at every audition that would be like the same, a hundred and fifty hockey players, but most of them weren't professional hockey players, they are actors who could barely skate. So I was really I would stand out for the hockey part and I was always confident and I didn't really care too much about it. So I came across as it came across easily for the acting part, you know, reading stuff, doing the lines, looking at the script. So I always kind of stood out. So I got really lucky and I booked twelve spots, everything from, you know, Ford, Captain Morgan's, Budweiser, Burger King, you know, all the big, big companies and and that helped me make some money in the summertime, but also helped me to...

...see what it's like to be on a set, to see what it's like to be on a million dollar, you know, multimillion dollars set, see who's doing what, see the camera team, you know, find out behind the scenes of what Hollywood is like and what I said is like, and that's important for a film editor to at least know what else is out there. You can be in your little box and get the footage and just treat it as your own. But I think every will maker benefits from learning other roles, learning other positions, even if it's a cursory attempt just to see what they're doing, so you have a sense of the whole thing. Filmmaking is collaborative. You should know as much as you can about everyone else and their departments. Yeah, I mean your IMDB shows that you're multi talented, do you? You're an editor, you're in the editorial department, you're an actor, producer, cinematographer, you've been in the sound department, a director, a composer, you've done stunts, you're a writer initial effects. So that's crazy. I'm a freak. I'm a freak. I love every component of filmmaking and I take each of them so seriously. I've also played guitar for about thirty five years, and so I've recorded some tracks for you know, some songs and scores for four films. I've played the national anthem before a hockey game in Los Angeles, like at center ice. So, like, it's all these crazy things that all come around and come together that helped me be who I am and and I definitely think that music is a huge like benefit if you are an editor, because there are inherent rhythms. There's a sense of feel, a sense of timing, a sense of pace when you're editing. That is it should be like subconscious, like if it's in you, then it'll come out in your edit. If you don't have musical experience, you may not you may think what you're looking at is flowing or has rhythm, but it's not really there. So I think it's just a benefit that everyone branch out. If you're a cinematographer, play some music. If you're an editor, go read a book or at something like do something separate. It's like cross training for filmmaking. Athletes do it all the time, you know. Hockey players go play tennis or they go do sprints or they play soccer or basketball. It's using the same muscles but in a different way and then it comes back around and really helps you in your main goal and your main task. So, just a transition into our main topic. How did you get involved with gone girl and what exactly was your involvement? Sure I I had already been in to David fincher's office to meet their editors there and they were going to make the switch over to premiere pro. So I came in early and just gave them some tutorials, give them some lessons on what it's like to use premiere pro, with the benefits are what the struggles are. At this point fincher's editors were still cutting on final cut seven. So they had done the social network on that and I think gone girl was the first one that they did with premiere pro. So my goal was was very simple and it was just up front, to introduce them to that, to the system, give them a workflow update and share with them some of my thoughts. And they and they're really obviously there. They Were Academy Award winning editors at this point, so they didn't need editing lessons. They just needed heads up on how to approach it and what the best way to set up a workflow and and be start editing was. And then I was there for support during it. I was answering questions and again, those guys are so smart. They just came in and they fired off with two hundred questions. They had two hundred and fifty requests on how they wanted premiere to do things differently. Right. So they took those lists and they adobe actually put two engineers and fincher's office for the entire run of gone girl who were there writing code and changing that version of premiere pro to incorporate their requests. That's not it's change. Yeah, it's crazy, crazy, like no one else does that, but they understood that with David Fincher, his project is huge film. If they can get them on board then that's going to, you know, benefit adobe and then everyone else. The cool part was those...

...two hundred and fifty features that were built into premiere pro during that year of postproduction. They all ended up in the next public build of premiere pro. So all that stuff that they asked for we got as civilians, you know, on the street saying Oh, that's a cool feature. I didn't even know. And what I liked was that these requests were coming from film editors and they weren't being created by engineers at adobe who don't really know sometimes what film editors want or video editors want. They'll say, oh, we need a big button that just does this, and film editors like no, we don't want a big button, we want something else. So, coming from fincher's team and that group of editors, they made premiere pro better and that got passed along to us, which is huge. You know, that's such a benefit and there's no other company that does that, that literally implements your requests on the fly and then keeps doing it for years and years. That's crazy. We both edit on premiere pro for our school. So thank you, David fincher. Yeah, exactly. I think I've every day to believe me, you've worked on several other movies and television. So for your editorial consultant responsibilities, which is what you're credited as, is is that generally what you're doing is sort of helping them make the transition into whatever software they're using or and could you explain what you're post production workflow, the service your company, Vashi visuals, provides? Yeah, of course, gone girl was just, you know, a hidden run to try and get them comfortable. And again, those guys are so smart they picked it up quickly. But after that, you know, that was five, six years ago, but for the last ten years adobe has hired me to train other editors to transition into premiere pro. Most of those editors are coming from avid which is the bedrock. It's the longest running, you know, software linear editing and nonlinear editing in Hollywood and it's, excuse me, it's you know, it's been around for a long time and it's quite different from premiere pro. I think that if any editor has never tried avid, they open it up, they're like, well, I see where the windows are, but I don't know how to interact with it, and it's you know, it is at the least intuitive system I've ever yes, yes, it's very powerful. It's usually very stable. The one thing I have to say, though, is that with avid it remains to be stable and strong when you transcode everything to the same CODEC and it all lives on a server and then you know four five editors are hitting it. What I love about premiere pro, and what most people that haven't used it yet don't know, is that it's, you know, frame rate independent, resolution independent, CODEC Independent. You can throw everything into one timeline and then just start cutting and you don't have to transcode enough to wait. If you have a beefy, strong system, then it'll chew through that. If you don't, then you're going to have some lags and it's going to drop frames and stuff. But it opened up a huge world. I mean I was cutting on it since two thousand and six on premiere pro, so I became very, very familiar with it, and that's why I dobe hired me to interact with these other editors and to show them how premiere pro works, show them my workflows, show them my techniques and the benefits of it. About two years ago I became a member of Ace American Cinema Editors, which is like the hugest honor for me is a film editor, and since then I've trained over fifty other fellow ace editors on premiere pro and these new workflows that I've developed and that I've refined over the years, and it's just a really wonderful feeling to have an editor come in and, let's say they're an avid editor and I've trained, you know, Academy Award Winning Editors, and they're like, I'm on Abot, I'm not even comfortable, I just want to see it. I want to see what it looks like because there's more premiere pro jobs coming up and I don't want to be left out of the left in a lurch. So it's funny because some of these guys are fifty or sixty years old. Women as well and they want to...

...learn premiere because they realize that they'll become a dinosaur if they just know avid and they're not familiar with the other options out there. So I've been lucky enough to be part of this journey where I've watched the development of not only Hollywood workflows but the attitude of editors trying to better themselves, and I think that's so key. Like for me, I'm always trying to learn something, a new tip, a new trick, a new software, a new plug in, just so I have it available if I need to, because I would hate to be in an interview or interacting with someone they're like, Oh, well, we do it this way. Are you familiar with this? And you could say yes and then go quickly try and learn it, but I'd rather already know something about it. So it's an ever never ending challenge and test for myself to try and ingest as much information and knowledge so I'm always prepared, and that goes directly into Vashi visuals and the things I've done in the workflows I've set up. So you're credited with editing eleven feature films, including Shark Nado too, and we were wondering how much creative obviously it varies from project to project, but typically, how much creative freedom are you given? And do work closely with the director? Sure, yeah. I've done eleven feature films and they go across a large variety of genres, because I think a good film editor can tell a good story. I don't want to be pinned in the box as I'm an action director or I'm a comedy director. I've cut comedies, I've cut a feature film for David Zooker, who who you know, directed airplane. I've done horror films, I've done documentaries. I did Shark Nado two, which was a blast. I'll tell you about that. But definitely the interaction with the director is first and foremost. Before editors hired, he has an interview with the director and you got to see if you're on the same page. Being really good and technically skilled as an editor doesn't mean Shit when you're dealing with the director and you're going to spend nine months with them and they're going to spend nine months with you. It has to be a relationship that you foster. It has to be a given. Take your your part psychologist, your part friend, your part, you whipping boy and you have to take it all in stride. Like at the Hollywood level, you try and make the right decision with the director, and don't forget it's the same decision you have to make. Director can pick you, but if you don't like the feel of it or you don't like the look of it, then if you're going to commit nine months of your life and you're going to be miserable, then that's on you for making that choice. So it's a you know, you have to interact with the director, see if you're on the same page and then you proceed at that point. I've had directors that are in there every day with me from nine am to eight o'clock, sitting right next to me, and we're looking at every take and we're making micro cuts all day long. I've had other directors that come in once a week and they say our running me what you've cut this week and they'll give me notes and leave and come back next week. So and then nitor has to be really flexible and very adaptive to every situation and I think the hardest part for me as an editor is, as a hockey player, having aggression, having all this is being calm internally and not letting it out in the Edit Bay. Because you know, I mean even at any level, people disagree and how you express yourself is really important. If you just start screaming and yelling, then that's not going to end well. And if I start screaming and yelling at a director or producer, then not only will I not have another job with them, but we're will get around that I'm a hothead or something like that. So I have to control myself and understand that in this industry I have to be a calming, soothing source and I have to help facilitate everyone, and the diplomacy of that and the dynamics of the room are as important as your physical and creative skills. At editing it's fifty be in a good person your people skills will get you further than you're editing skills, I promise you. That's amazing, and I just have to personally for myself. Ask Airplane is one of my favorite movies of all time. Hotshots is amazing. Make a gun is amazing. How...

...is working with one of the Zucker brothers. David Ziker's one of my good, really really good friends. He's so amazing. I learned so much from him, just as much as, like, I gave back to him. When we were cutting American Carol for him. He would sit with me all day long and he would just tell stories about airplane and then he would apply that to the scenes that we were doing, because a lot of people don't know comedy editing is. It's down to the frame, like when you cut to the reaction or how much of a gag or a fall or a Pratt fall that you show. Some of it's funny, some of it's not. You have to really, really finesse every cut to get that response from the audience. And I learned that, like I thought, Oh that's that's good, that's a good scene. He's like, Nope, take the air out. Too much air, too much space between everything. So we would go from every cut take out frames until it was fast, fast, fast, fast, fast, and it would just cook. And so learning that, I applied that later to other disciplines of editing, different genres, because I realize that there's nothing worse than like long takes that that don't go anywhere or things linger on shots too long. And I'm not talking about wonders or like you know, long takes that are designed. I'm talking about a shot that's a two shot that you just linger on for no reason, those long wonders that we all love as an editor because it gets to play out for, you know, a minute. We don't have to cut anything. Those are preplanned, from the camera movements to the lighting to the costume, designed to everything. Everything is in play and it's designed to be that way. You can't apply that to everything. So by cutting quickly and cutting with with distinct intent, you get to the funny part of the joke and you can see it. The other thing he taught me was if there's a joke or something, don't like leave gap for the laughing. Everyone's like, oh, we got to leave some air in here so people can laugh at the joke and then we'll come back to the story. Zuker was like no, cut that air out, go on to the next joke. If they missed the joke, they can buy another ticket and come watch the movie again, and that sustainable business model. Yes, yeah, so that's like some of the things I learned from from him and funny enough that you mentioned he reached out to me like two years ago. He said Vashi, I need you to recut airplane for me. I like, I said, David, what are you talking about? He's like, there's some spots that are slow. I want to tighten it up and just, you know, Trim some stuff. I'm like, David, you lunatic. Your film is in the Net Library of Congress, in the you know, National Archives. I can't leave it. They didn't. It's fine. Yeah, it's like leave it be. He's like, no, no, we gotta do this. So he was doing a traveling road show with his with his brother and with Abrahams, where they would present it. So I got the actual film and I did recut it. So if you saw airplane with Zuker when he was traveling around at your girl, it was my version and we literally it was like cutting four frames from the end of this shot, taking six frames from another shot off it just trims, trims, TRIMs. The only shot that I did alter and we took out about all in all, maybe fifty two seconds or maybe a minute, and it was all these little, little tiny pieces and I don't think I've ever told anyone this before. So you guys are breaking news bust and yeah, that there's this this Vashi cut of airplane leads the Vachi Cut. Yeah, really say please have that stag trending by the end of the day. But there's one shot that I did change, that I altered, which is when strikers looking at the cockpit and looking at the all the dials and KNOBS and controls. It goes from left to right for like forty five seconds and you see all the controls. Then you realize, how long can this be? Like it keeps going and going and going. But what happened was that shot never change speed. So he's looking at it, the music is playing and it goes at a very slow tempo from left to right, panning across the control panel. What I did was I put a speed ramp on it, so it slowly gets a little faster, faster, faster faster than it blurs and we cut to the guy sitting in the taxi at the...

...airport looking at the running meter. So that was the only shot I changed, but everything else was just trims, little trims here and there. We watched and he was like a two frames. We got to take two frames off the end of that shot. So that's the that. There is another cut of a of almost at alien of airplane out there. Well, that's gonna make my dad very happy to hear. So, just as a more general question, how do you decide where to make a cut, and is it you personally editing all the footage for a certain project? Idea of a whole team of people working collaboratively on larger films? Will definitely have a team and I'll have at least one assistant and then a vfx editor and a sound editor. So what I will do is my goal is always to watch all the footage first at least once, like if I have more time I'll watch it, you know, a couple times. But when you're dealing with like like Deadpool, I worked on Deadpool for nine months. I trained seven people that had never touched premiere pro their entire team to use premiere pro. Then I was in there helping make decisions, helping run the workflow that I created, talking to Tim Miller. Tim Miller would call me into the edit room. What do you think? Which one's better? This cutter that cut so like it was in a completely collaborative and amazing experience to be able to actually chip in and help make changes and make the right choices. For me, I like to look at all the footage and then start cutting, but I got to look at it all. I think an editor that doesn't look at all the footage is doing a disservice to the to the director, to the project and to themselves, frankly, because I have an amazing memory, like it's like I can dump a lot of it in there, I'll remember everything and then, for whatever reason, if I move on to another project, I kind of like hard refresh or hard whatever, it all goes away and I start from from scratch. So by watching all the footage once and setting it up in a timeline the way that I like with my pancake timeline, then I can remember just a glimpse of a shot or a piece of a shot and I know where it is and I can go find it if I don't, if I'm not familiar with all the footage, then I'm just basically going to the last take. That says, usually called a circle take, where the directors like that's it, we got it. A lot of editors will just cut the first edit with the last take because they're like, oh, that's what the director liked, but that doesn't mean anything because the tone of every shot and every take is different. It may have looked good on set of that time, but when you're cutting the piece the film, whatever it is, it may be the completely wrong dial reading or it could be the wrong tone that they're giving. So you have to go through all the footage and remember that. Oh, you know earlier there's ten takes. I remember the first two takes were a little slower, a little calmer. That would be perfect. If you didn't know that was there, you couldn't pull it out. So I like to build with with knowing that I've seen everything and I can set up a style and and a piece and I usually approach. My secret is that if I have a film, no one says you have to start editing from the first scene right. Everyone's like, all right, let's go to page one, scene one, let's start cutting. What I like to do is read the script, obviously before, and then start cutting a scene that I know is important, that's critical to the story and also that I'm really familiar with and I really know what I want to do even before I start. Some scenes will stump you. You're like, how do I approach this? I don't know. Why do that to yourself, go find a scene that you're comfortable with and say I really know what the scene should be like. Build that scene first, because what that does is gives you some confidence, gives you a little bit of rhythm and momentum and when you show that to the director producer, you feel good because you know you did it a good job, because you were prepared to tackle that scene. So that's a bit of advice that I try and impart upon. You know other filmmakers and editors that ask me to start with a scene that you really know very well and you're really comfortable with the footage, because if you can knock that out of the park, it'll give you that momentum that you need and then you can build forward and backwards from there or bounce around anything, anything else. That's great. So one of the questions I have is,...

...in general, are you brought into a picture after all the shooting is completed? Are you generally involved in the process as it's shooting? As an editor right I for the last at least ten or fifteen years in Hollywood. At a higher level, you're cutting right with camera and you're trying to stay up with camera. On an average feature film. An editor will probably get between four and ten hours of footage every day that'll come into the edit bay. So they shoot it, they bring over the hard drives, I import it and I start watching it and I start cutting whatever scene. If it's a full scene that they shot, that I can start cutting that. So I'm cutting from day one and they, the directors and producers, expect by the end of shooting that you have seen all the footage, organized it and cut, you know, at least half the film already, like, you know, if possible, even in its roughest form. But, more importantly, we get the footage, I look at it. If they missed something, if there's something standing out that I'm like wow, we could really use this shot or you guys didn't grab this. I have to compare it to the script. I can inform them that night so the next day, if there still at the same location, they can grab that shot. Now, some directors and producers don't like to be told, you know, anything like they don't want to hear like, oh, we need to shoot another shot for the editor. But I'm looking at it as the story. So if there is something blarring, you know, glaring, that they missed or something that could help, and I have a good relationship. I could suggest it, you know, once and if they want to act on it, great, if not, then I have to use my editing skills down the road to fix that problem. But I'm looking at the footage every day and I'm cutting every day as they're shooting, so I have something to show for it. You know, years ago, of course they would film everything and then dump all the footage onto the editor. But because we have digital access now, we have files right away. Most cameras even capture proxy footage at the same time as it's captures the full camera negative. So you could be editing, you know, later in the day. Steven Soderberg, you know he cuts in the car at the end of the day of shooting. So he shoots all day as the DP and the director and they's cutting on a laptop on the way back to the hotel. So it's because of the technology. I think it's a lot easier to cut now and that's what everyone expects from the directors and producers. They expect you to be cutting right away. So as an editor, I'm sure by the end of a given project you've watched it nearly like hundreds of time start to finish. Do you like by the end of a certain assignment, like are you sick of seeing it? I wouldn't say you're sick of seeing it. Let me give you an example. Six below is the film that I cut a couple of years ago. The last twenty four days we had a locked cut, but we watched the film every morning and then we would I would address notes in the afternoon. So for the last twenty four days before we had to turn over the final film to sound and color and have it properly locked, I watched the film twenty four days in a row. This is after like eight months of working on the film, and it's not it's not a pain or anything like that. What you're doing is you're watching it as a viewer, not as an editor, and you're looking for anything that bumps you, anything that makes you go WHOA, whoa. Sometimes, when you watch something so many times, you expect what's coming and you know but you really aren't paying attention. So you can catch a glaring error, you can catch a completely something completely wrong because you're watching it as a viewer and not an editor. So it's so you got to like flip a switch and watch it and let the movie fall over you and just look for those moments that take you out of the moment itself, and that's what you write down and that's what you tweak later. The downside to that is if you make any change, even one cut, one shot, that's going to ripple both forwards and backwards and that can literally ruin...

...a scene. What you thought at that moment was like Oh, that doesn't work, let's try something else, and it was working. Then you just ruined a scene or ruined the flow of the film. So it's a very touchy feeley process. Right, you could hurt the film, but if you have more than one person there. We did this twenty four times with the director and my assistance, so there are three of us sitting in the room every morning watching the film and we would talk about it after look at our notes, compare and obviously if two of US had the same note, then we're like what, we should address that, because let's get into it. So's it's one of the skills that an editor should have is to be subjective and objective and everything all at once. When you're watching it. It is your work, but it is eventually has to go out to the world and you want it to be the most elegant and concise told story possible given the time and skills and budget that you have. This is more of a general question, but do you see personally the future film editing as being premier cut pro or our sorry premiere pro, or do you see an avid sort of coexisting? I mean everyone asks about which platforms. Listen, I've cut feature films on Avid, I've cut them on final cut seven, I've got them on premiere and I even have a steam back. I have a six plates team back, you know, film editing table that once belonged to Orson Wells. So I have covered. I'm covered. If anyone wants to cut on film or whatever, it doesn't matter to me. And to be honest, as an editor in the Edit Bay on a day I usually do six or seven mechanical tasks all day long. It's it mark in, mark out, insert, overwrite, delete and trim. Those are seven buttons right, those seven buttons are you can assign them to whatever you want on avid, premiere pro final cut. That's all I need to know. There's a lot more I can get into, but to tell the story. Those are the six or seven buttons that I need to tell the story. Everything else is in eight inside me. It's coming from experience, it's coming from that feel of rhythm. It's coming from analyzing footage and performances and seeing what will work together. It's it's all that stuff. It's not the platform. That said, I think premiere pro is ahead of everyone else because of the fact that it can take any footage, it could take any resolution, any CODEC they're fast on updating it. If something new comes out, you don't have to transcode, so you're editing right away. There's the interaction between after effects using dynamic link is ridiculous. Like you have access to the most famous and popular and pretty much powerful effects software out there. There's others, but it's interaction with premiere pro makes it ridiculous. Put it this way. David fincher on his films, ninety five percent of his shots like gone girl. It had about two thousand six hundred individual shots. Twenty four hundred of them had dynamic link on them. They were sent to after effects to make either a split screen, to stabilize something, to paint something out. That was all done within that ecosystem of Premiere, pro and after effects. So that ability and power and flexibility is why I use it. And these are some of the things I share with other editors, because not everyone knows everything about every platform. And when you demonstrate stuff, you're like, look, I can make a separate clip, send it to diamond, dynamic link and after effects and as an editor I can do the work or I can tell my assistant, Hey, can you go green screen this and crop this and split screen this. They're working on the shot that's in your timeline, but they're in another room. When they finish their work and save it, it updates in my timeline in real time. So like that functionality sets it apart from everything else you know for me. So it's just and that's what with Tim Miller and Deadpool,...

...same thing. Like threezero shots in the film. Two thousand six hundred of them went to dynamic link so the vfx artist could do their work. So can you tell us about your time on Shark Nado to hell? Yeah, that's I I get asked about that more than anything else, and I mean it is a cultural moment at that time. Phenomena. Yeah, as a phenomena, I imagine that. So sharkkado one came out and I saw it and I loved it. I thought I was super campy and it's fun and I love sharks. I Love Shark Films. The first film I ever saw when we defected from Czechoslovakia was jaws. I saw jaws in a drive in theater from the backseat of a convertible vw bug with my parents, and once the shark popped up the first time, I think I hid under a blanket in the back seat for the rest of the film because I would just I was absolutely terrorized and then I've been scared of sharks ever since. Like I jumped into a pool and I think there's a shark there. When your eyes are closed, when you first jump into a pool and you can't see, I'm convinced there's a shark about to attack me. It's manic. So I reached out to the asylum. I knew one of the CO founders and I said they announce Sharknado two and I said listen, I want to cut Sharknado two and he laughed. He's like why would you want to do that? I'm like, listen, first of all, I love sharks. I want to cut a shark movie. Second of all, the asylum at that point was making twenty five films a year each with a budget of about a million and a half dollars. Each of them were broadcast, hit their deadline, hit their budget and it was done with a group of people in Burbank. I wanted to see behind the curtain see how they did that, because one thing in Hollywood if you don't hit your deadline, like if there's an air date, then you're screwed, you're in a Dell. Never hire you again. If you go over budget, people will remember that. So they had some kind of system at the asylum where they could pump out twenty five films a year with a reasonable budget, do it on time, and I wanted to see how they did that. So I offered my services and then two months later he's like you still want to edit it? I'm like absolutely. So he hired me and I edited it on Premiere Pro and I edited at home. I didn't even have to go into the studio. I edited it at home. I had all the footage, clone drives of all the footage that they had there and I would send them at that point I sent an xml over and they would open up on their end because they had clone drives so they could see my cuts and keep going and I would just do that every day. Just ended up cutting four or five minutes every day of footage of scenes, send it to him at night, keep moving forward. I would get notes, I go back and address those and it was an amazing process and it was very interactive. They have an amazing system there. They have a Bible at the asylum where it shows you how every project should be set up, from the bins to the folders. It shows you naming conventions for everything. It shows you the layout of your timeline. Every video track could only contain a certain thing, from your raw footage to vfx, to subtitles to stationary shots, two plates so you knew where to put everything, and same for audio. And every editor at the asylum uses this system and is so impressive because if any other editor goes to another project or has to go help out, if they open up that project, it's set up exactly the same way, so you know where everything is. You know how difficult it if someone has a sloppy project and you look at it you're like, oh Jesus, like, where's the where's the audio? Where's the video? You can't tell. It's great to have a system and they had a system. So not only did I get to cut a shark film that was seen by five million people the day it premiered, it also opened in a hundred and eighty countries. No, sorry, eighty four countries that first day. So that's for myself, like your personal ego. That's a great feeling that so many people saw it and they had a cool response and Shrucknor to is obviously the best of the Sharknado franchise. Obvious. That is indisputable. Indisputable. I have a friend, Kate, who, if she's listening, which she's definitely not, will be very glad to hear this. Just to...

...go ahead. Oh, I was just going to say jaws is my favorite movie. I wrote my college essay about it and the first time I saw it, I after the head popped out of the side of the boat. I had to turn it off. So we were both equally traumatized. See that Ben Gardener's head and you know that. You know the back story. I'm sure you probably was shot in Steven Spielberg's Pool Yep, Yep, and yeah, that's a militiou and then actually know what? No, when they correct you on that one. It was shot in verna fields pool, the editors pool at Stephen Stephen was in there. Obviously I know that they poured milk in to make it look murkier. Yeah, that was interesting. That's amazing, like, and that was after the fact. They needed to get another scare, so they're like, what can we do? Let's do been gardener's head coming out, and so they literally built that in the pool and shot it after the fact to create another moment. That obviously traumatized you and me as well. So they did a really good job on that one. Confession. I've Steven Spielberg is my favorite director and I've never seen jaws. Come on Fur. How is that passes blast to me? I'm mad at you. I saw it once when I was like very young, and so I don't I know everything you've been on that day except for the thing itself. You've been an apartment for far too long. I don't know if I could finish his podcast with such a slight. I'm also getting this podcast. Yeah, this is the last episode of the show. Guys, let's wrap it. It's a monolog now. Oh my God, I actually he's I I on six below. We we made a K DCP and I was lucky enough that we had connections at Amblen, which is Steven Spielberg's personal studio at universal and in Burbank. We got to screen it in his personal theater that seats about twenty five people. So I watched the K ADCP and his theater and they actually have a fully stocked concession stand with Reese's pieces, popcorn and all that stuff. So that was a thrill. He wasn't there that day, but the facility is amazing and I got to meet all his sound people and his vfx people and the whole facility was amazing. But that was a real treat to see it in his theater on the big screen and the reese's pieces being an et joke, right or yes, yes, just check in. Yeah, we were also wondering, have you ever met David Fincher, speaking of gone girl. Now, I saw him at the student his office is. I never got to interact with them at that level. He's a very not private guy, but he's bouncing around like crazy. He was walking around writing get to like sit down and have the conversation with them all the information. All he asked for was like can you make it work better and faster so my editors can do the work? You know, that's all he wanted and my job was to fulfill those needs. What's interesting with fincher and Soderberg and several other like Jj Abrams and whatnot, they believe in like a platoon mentality and they believe in one location, like at fincher's offices they have ten edit bays summer for editing, summer for vfx, summer from music, and he'll bounce room to room and it's all contained under one facility. Roof, you know, that's all locked down so nothing has to go out of that facility. So you have you have security for the footage. He can go in, interact and give real time feedback and see it right there. Soderberg does the same thing. Jj Abrams has bad robot and Santa Monica, where it's almost a full city block. You go in there, everything is there, vfx, music, editing, you never have to leave, you don't have to worry about footage leaking out, and I see that trend happening a lot more. And again that goes back to the technology, the the access to faster drives and raids that are cheaper, like so much cheaper than they used to be, and you can create that small group that can complete the entire film. So I think that's the way of the future and I think I've seen that for many years and I could see that trend continuing. That's awesome, I guess. Just to slowly wrap this up, we've asked...

...all of our guests so far how they've been handling the coronavirus workwise, and we were just wondering how you've been keeping busy in during these times. Sure, I had finished a couple projects right before like march thirteen. I came back. I was out out east and I came back from a job back to La and then we all got locked down. I've been directing a feature film, document documentary about my dad called big Ned because he was the first hockey player to defect and play in the National Hockey League back in the s. So that was part of my story and now that he got into the hockey hall of fame, people are all asking like, what's the story? When we see the film, we want to know the INNERDS, the behind the scenes, and my dad's very private person. He doesn't give very many interviews and no one knows the true story. So I've spent like the last two or three years interviewing him and, more importantly, collecting archival footage from the hockey hall of fame, from Czechoslovakia, from Russia, from all over the place to be able to tell his story in in his voice. I was approached by big you know. I talked to sports NN and CBC and Hbo Sports and Everyone wanted to do the documentary and funded but the first thing they wanted to do was assigned editors and producers and all that kind of stuff, and I was like, yes, I'd love your money to fund this all, but I'm not going to give up any components of the storytelling process, from directing to editing to anything. I'm not going to risk it. And they all wanted the same thing. They wanted a linear documentary. You know, Big Dad was born in Czechoslovakia, then he did this, then he came over here, then he played hockey. Like that's not interesting, like documentaries are the future of filmmaking for me. There are so many creative ways to it to the tackle and approach a documentary from nonconforming ways to traditional but I just can't stand like big heads talking to me like and then cut to something and then another big head telling me something, even though it's lit well, it looks great, there's depth of field. I don't care. And what I didn't want to do with my dad is he's seventy six years old. I didn't want to sit him down in front of a camera sor I tell me some stories right. No, I don't want to cut from him at seventy six years old to twenty four years old in his prime playing hockey. I wanted to tell his story. So the decision I made was all my interviews with all his friends and everyone there were audio only and I'm building the entire film with archival footage, is footage and photos, and not having those big heads of like old people on camera, you know, thinking about the past. I wanted to approach it from another angle and try and transport you back to the s through the visuals, through the music, through everything else, and basically have like a time warp. You know you're literally stepping back into that area and you're not aware because most people's voices. They don't change that much. You know, my dad's talking, he's talking whatever, so he could be talking over imagery of himself when he's thirty and it's fine, you know. I just didn't want to ruin that image, imagery of now and then. I wanted to stay in back then. So, if non linear, what kind of storytelling structure are using? I'm bouncing around between past and present because there's certain key moments that occur in his life that co exist. The actual story, you would think is a hockey story, but it's actually in two parts. It's capitalism versus communism. My father grew up in a communist system where there's rules, there's a limit, there's a cap to what you could make, cap to what you could do, and he was trying to surpass that and couldn't, and that's why he left. When he got to North America for the second half of his career and everything, he was caught up in the capitalistic agents and people screwing you out of money and being taken advantage of. And he was trained his whole life, if the boss says this or that, you have to do it. So he didn't know this was occurring and he was taken advantage of so and everyone thought, all you go to America, used to make a lot of money, everything's fine. Well, that's not the case. So it's an analysis...

...of these two systems within the framework of my dad's life and career and the whole family's existence. So that's what it's really about, but the guise of it is that it's it is my dad's story. Is a hockey player, but there's a lot more to it. So that gives me the leeway to bounce around between Europe and North America show key important historical moments that are intertwined with my dad's story, and it's just a journey. So it should be. I'm trying again rhythm. Rhythm and flowing is the biggest challenge with something like this when it's not purely linear. Did you watch the last dance the Michael Jordan documentary? I haven't yet, only because I'm almost on with editorial here and I don't want to be colored or flavored by something that that is coming out right now and it would scare me to watch it right now. Oh, I totally understand that, but after you're done it's totally worth your time. And what made me think is that it very, like decisively has like a to like a two story system, and it's very nonlinear and it's about so much more than basketball, much like your hand all off, and that's why I don't want to watch, because I don't want to seem like an influence. Yeah, it's funny. I was actually friend of mine is was the director of Apollo eleven that came out last year and it was in the check that out. All. You got to check that out. It's unbelievable. It's all archival footage. I Sup I saw this. Yeah, yeah, so we go. So I saw it at Imax here in La on the on the huge like k display was absolutely insane. They actually recovered the seventy millimeter original prints that they shot there and that's like the first ten minutes of the movie and you're just like it looks like you're watching Christopher Nolan imax film. It's so clear, so detailed, looks like it was shot yesterday. And his film is all archival as well, but his is linear because all right, we get in the rocky, we go to the moon, we come back, hopefully ey then goes well, so you know where it's going, but it was one of the most amazing films because of the work they did to restore the footage, present it to you, use the dialog of all the main people, and it was an amazing experience. So that was that was influential. I had already done my cut, but that just reassured me that I was on the right path of going all archival for my purposes. That's amazing. Do you have a like? is their distribution plan right now or are you just in the process of making it right now? I'm going to finish it first. I've already had communications with people. Everyone wants to see it, as they always do. It's going to be but with the ever changing like distribution models right now, like you know, I have friends that have sold stuff to Netflix and Amazon prime and whatnot, and it's, you know, for for something that's not a blockbuster. They didn't really don't pay a lot right and I funded the documentary myself completely for the last four years and it's a huge investment. I wouldn't get that from Netflix just to sell it. So there's a lot of other options out there and I'm pursuing those and it's just really interesting I'm having these conversations with people that have sold stuff and said, how did you do it? What do you suggest? This is changing like by the month now, and now with covid you know, everything is changing again. So I can't wait to cross that bridge. The hardest part of this film has been the legal to deal with the NHL Rights, the rights of the footage usage. What what those people expect like per minute is incredibly a lot of money, you know, for what they want. And there is a lot of hockey footage in this film and there's a lot of archival footage that has, you know, a Detroit Red Wings Jersey or a Boston Bruins Jersey, and they want to get paid for every second that's on screen. So that in the legal stuff is the last hurdle before I can sell it. I mean I can show it, I can screen it privately, I can't sell it until I get all my ducks in a row and solve those issues, which is something filmmakers definitely have to focus on. You can make a film but you're still not done with it and it won't be available for sale until you handle all the legal aspects. Well, that's great. We look forward to watching it whenever it...

...gets released. Trent, do you have any other questions you want to I think that's it for now. Thank you. You, when I give you a nice little nugget about what I did yesterday, tell us so please. Okay, so I had just finished. I did this ten part quick course that I launched over the last ten weeks where it breaks down my entire workflow. It's actually free. If you guys haven't checked it out, make sure you check it out. I did it with Dell. They're giving away like a five thousand dollar laptop to anyone who signed up. It's completely free. It's ten video chapters and a sixty nine page PDF that breaks down my entire workflow, again like what we're talking about in real life. But I finished it two days ago and then yesterday Don Winslow, who is friend of mine online, said Hey, do you want to cut a political ad? I'm like what does what does that mean? He Goes, oh well, I'll send you the script. It's one page. You just need it done in twenty four hours. I'm like, Jesus, I can look at it, sure, because I had cut some political ads for David Zooker. You know, ten years ago when he was first a Republican. Now he was first a Democrat and he became a Republican. So I had done some Republican political ads and then and yesterday I cut a video. If you go on twitter and you look up meat mother pence, it has two million views in the last like twenty hours and I cut it, colored it, graded it, narrated it, everything in like twenty hours. Is it that with the wind? Is it meeting Michael Mike Pence's mom? Presumably, yeah, yes, so, it's so. And this is out of that's a riot. Yeah, it's interest, it's interesting. It was fun, but it was it was just one of those things that popped up. But it's like to cut a two minute video from scratch with just a script, find all the assets, find the right music, narrate it, color, grade it, makes it in one day. Was Awesome Challenge and that's one thing I want to leave you guys with. As a feature film editor, you know I'll spend nine months on a film, but in between films always like to convert, you know, cut commercials. I've cut about fifty commercials. I cut music videos, I cut political ads, like yesterday, all these kind of things, to just use different muscles, you know, to find out what's going on, work on your workflow, flex different things to see how it works, and also to have a time limit, like I had a twenty four hour time limit, and that's a challenge. You have to understand. You have to decide is that far enough? Am I going to spend three hours color grading? No, that doesn't matter. Let me work on the story. So it's really good to try out different things and really expand your editing genres. Long for format, short format, anything, just cut something. It really does help you in the long run. You become more comfortable. That's awesome. I guess that's a great place to end our conversation. Thank you so much, Vashi. Need events. Sorry, need Oman Sky. I hope I'm pronouncing that correctly. It's net net a man, it's but now I've heard much worse. It's Vas. She didn't Nancy, much worse, believe me. Okay, but wonderful guys. It's my sincere pleasure to be on and to chat with fellow filmmakers about what's going on in the world and and if you need any follow up, where you need anything else, just please reach out. This has been a real treat. Thank you so much. Everyone is listening. Watch gone girl. It's great, and Sharky. You took it, more importantly, Sharknado too. All right, thank you so much, by our pleasure. Have a great weekend, guys. Thank you so much to our guests, Vashi nit a man ski. He was the very talented editorial consultant who worked on our chosen film, gone girl,...

...but has also worked on such projects as a house of cards in Deadpool and a bunch of other cool stuff. So he was swell, we loved him. Yes, well, part loves a strong word. Well, I love him. We strongly anticipate his hockey documentary about his father, his father. Yeah, look into that, folks. So once again, thanks. And for next week we have our discussion on David fincher's gone girl and we're having a guest part. You know who it's going to be. I've saw idea of this person. Tell me I've come face to face with this individual, this male or female individual. Well, we're bringing along Sophia Alexis. And who's that? She is my lady friend. Oh well, you'll have to tune in for our intimate get together and gone girl Brew Haha on next week's installment of craft services the podcast. See you next week, guys,.

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