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Episode 4 · 2 years ago

DA 5 BLOODS (2020) Discussion with Jackson Clark

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Parth and Trent discuss their thoughts on Da 5 Bloods with their friend Jackson from college.  

Edited by Parth Marathe

Hello and welcome back to craft services. Today we were supposed to have Jeremy Woolsey, the art director for to five bloods, to talk with us today, but due to scheduling issues that never ended up happening. So instead you're just going to have to listen to me and Trent talk with our friend Jackson Clark from college about the film. Yep, stay tuned. We're going to move on now to our group discussion. Portion. What did you what do you guys think of this film? My initial thoughts, I really liked this movie, but I feel like for every couple things that it did write that I really liked, it did some like a thing or two that held it back for me. I agree that I really enjoyed the premise. I like their performances. Thought it was a really beautiful film, but I agree that there were some sub plots I didn't think that were fully explored and there were definitely some elements that I thought we're not executed to the best of their ability. And I had some other qualms that will get into later, but overall positive. I was a good experience nants I was thoroughly entertained. If nothing else, I really, really like this movie. Only problems I had with it were kind of specifically, like the way that it ends. I don't necessarily have a problem with it. It's just for a spike Lee movie, it feels like okay and it's likely doing falling into his formula again. I just thought like in around the middle there were some pacing issues, but other than that I really liked it at a good time. What was your problem with the ending? I don't necessarily have an issue with the way that ends. If this was the only movie and I had no prior experience with Spike Lee, yeah, then I'd be like, Oh wow, this is a really cool movie. I really liked it, but it's like every one of I've only seen by Klansman, Malcolm X and this, and it's like every single movie of his that I've seen has ended with a montage, including some real life footage. I'm not asking for Spike Lee to be subtle, but it just feels like he's got a certain formula and I would like to see him. I really like how what he tackles. I just wanted to tackle it a little bit differently. Now the ending of this movie. I was definitely expecting more of a black clansman conclusion, where there's like topical footage of recent events, especially because like Donald Trump and the current state of affairs are like thoroughly discussed throughout, but instead it was just the video of Martin Luther King saying that he was murdered not long thereafter, and I was expecting more of like a cherry on top or a way to tie it back into modern...

...times, as I feel like that's always a focus. Was Spike Lee. My biggest problem with the ending was that early on in the film they talked about how they wish that there was a Vietnam War movie that discussed the black experience and had real heroes and wasn't just an attempt for Hollywood to like win the Vietnam War and then this movie they win the Vietnam War, just like they said everyone the movie. That didn't happen, and then they just went and did that and I thought that was pretty light. I think they kind of do a good job of showing that America pretty vehemently fucked up Vietnam. I mean they don't they give like a million or something to the Vietnamese guys family and then also to the organization that's going to help remove land minds and shit, that's not like losing the vehemn still that they got away with the goal, which I wasn't expect. Got It. They got away with their with their plans, despite four of the five bloods dying. It's still kind of was a happy ending. Yeah, I agree, and I don't think it should have been, especially, but that wouldn't have bothered me as much if they hadn't, like earlier on and math said that, like we want a war movie that doesn't just like reclaim a victory for America. It was a happier ending than I was expecting, for sure, but I didn't feel like it was like the most pro American, Fuck Yeah, we won, type ending. Like they got. They got away with the money and at least like the one survivor did, and like donated it to good causes, which is like a victory. Yeah, I guess that's right. About counter to their power point. I think that like varying amounts of focus were given to the different members of the five bloods, so much so to the point where I knew at least two of them were going to die, just due to the lack of like screen time and subplot, but it did sub vermin expectations by killing other main characters as well, which is always appreciated, as that is rare these days. Talking about the blood's dying, I think that which one is it? Is it the guy played by Norm Lewis who steps on the mine? Yeah, Eddie steps on the landline. That's seen to me like specifically, like is like mutilated body after the fact was like comical, run me up tropic thunder and just like it just look goofy, like. I feel like there's no way to do Gore like that, where like someone's just like d limbed like that and then there's like still alive and talking. That's not going to be like funny looking and like I like giggled and I don't feel like I should have. I agree that that looked ridiculous, especially when like ninety percent of your body is blown to smitherines you are not conscious for any final words with you. There's no way you can have no arms and it's like going to be like a serious see. That's a good rule of thumb. I didn't necessarily have a problem with that, but I did find him his last words being bloods as he whispers it out. I...

...thought that was a tad over over dramatic. Yeah, like it was just a little too much for me. I loved the Land Mine Portion, or the landmines throughout. Yeah, I agree. I agree, especially with the sun getting like yanked off of it like that was really well executed suspense. When they when they found the gold, like when he was when the sun was going to use the bathroom, I liked it. But then when they when he found the gold and they were all like going down the hill, that's when you're expecting going to find the landline. So stressed out, was like yeah, Oh my God, one of them is going to land on it and blow up, and I thought it was going to be the song. I think they strategically bring up landmines earlier, so when you see them walking around with a metal detector, seemingly too good to be true's obviously that has to come to an end eventually. But also when the first guy got exploded, I felt that that shot was going on for too long and that something bad was going to happen. Yeah, when he just starts, when he shouted walking, walking, word, I knew it what we will. He was walking backwards with zero motivation to walk backwards. I was like, Oh, this guy's about to get blown to shit, and you were correct. I thought the gun warfare in this movie, and it's Buch like the CGI bloodshed, was not particularly convincing. It kind of felt it kind of felt like a bad video game to me. It kind of reminded me of John Wick, really just the CGI blood aspect of it. I feel like, unless you're making a movie with the kind of tone that John Wick does, or if you're like an incredibly good director with like a high budget, like David fincher or something, CG blood almost never convinces me. I think Delroy Lindo's death in this was also funny and look bad because of the blood effects whatever. They were. Like what have you guys seen platoon? No, no, that's the Charlie Sheen movie, right. Yeah, I mean that's fine, but like a like there's like the famous imagery of like the Vietnam soldier like getting down on his knees and getting like shot a million times, and they kind of did that for Delroy Lindo and like I don't know if that was an intentional armager what, but I thought that was like funny just because like they shot him a hundred times, like I was insane. It just kept going on and I thought that was like a weird like lighthearted moment when like this character like nearly brought me to tears like twice earlier on in the film and now like his death is like funny. I was like that that didn't sit right. Did you think it was intentionally meant to be lighthearted or did you think it was just no, I think it was product of it. I think it was it was filmed. Yeah, I think it was a MISSTEP, and unintentional misstep of like just like the way it was filmed, having him get shot so many times look goofy. I think it's somewhat realistic. Like they had them dig is on gray of which is already rather severe, so to shoot him a hundred times isn't really overkill. But I agree he didn't really get like a beat of like redemption or to...

...sit and like be sad about it, because you were so overwhelmed with his lack of body kind of pivoting a little bit. What did you guys think of like, like it takes place in our present day with Donald Trump as president. I've seen a lot of reviews where they said that they got what he was what's what's bike Lee was going for, but they kind of just wished that it was a little more subtle. Did you guys have a problem with that subtle in what and it and it's political agenda, like not necessarily specifically be about Donald Trump and that, but to rather be like all these fucking Gen z kids? I don't know, not not that literally, but like people. Some people I saw had a problem with the fact that it was so specifically in two thousand and twenty. I think it's since it took place in two thousand and twenty, it only made it feel like more of its time. It made it feel like more important with them going back. I certainly didn't mind it and I don't I didn't feel hit over the head with it. I thought it was kept in moderation and really the one character, Paul, being a trump supporter, I feel like, spoke a lot about his character and about like veterans with trauma and how they can agree with trump sensibility. So it all, it all made sense within the story. I agree. How did you feel about the flashback sequences, without daging or casting younger actors. I did not like that at all. I wasn't even sure for most of the movie, like I was like, does he like? Do they think I'm not going to notice this? Is this on purpose? And it really threw me off. I did not enjoy that at all. And I also watched an interview with Delroy Lindo where he says it was written in the script that the bloods would be like they're old ages in the flashbacks. Well, I read. I read an interview with Spike Lee and what basically happened was, as I recollect it, it wanted to dage them what the Irishman caught heat and they don't want to fall into that trap. They weren't willing to give spike Lee the money to do it, I guess, because that movie had like a budget of hundred sixty million dollars, most of which went to the daging stuff, which I feel is weird that they wouldn't be willing to give spike fucking Lee like who won best original or adapted screenplay at the Oscars two years ago, and also the Irishman. There are significant portions of the movie or as like here. I don't know. Was it maybe like fifteen, twenty minutes where they would be daged like. I don't know, they should have just used younger actors. It did nothing for me to see them in their old age, like it doesn't seem worth it to do age them for such a short amount of time. No, I feel like that individual element is kind of laughable and it definitely like undercuts all the things I loved about the remainder of the movie. For example, like Otis Has Vietnamese girlfriend, lover, for whom he has a child with.

This takes place in two thousand and twenty and they were in Vietnam and like the s. So the daughter should be at least fifty years old and she is like in her what, like mid s? The girlfriend is, I don't know, like fifty. So I just think the timeline was not really taken into account. I'd assume that this was a relationship that extended beyond the war. All of them have gray hair in the flashbacks, so that's assuming they're like, I don't know, like fifty years old already, and then they should be about a hundred, for which they are not. I don't think it's meant to be that it they are old in the flashbacks. I think that's to be that's meant to be overlooked. I think they should have liked shaved them or dyed their hair or done something. I think for the average viewer it might be confusing, like, although they change the aspect ratio and for us it seems rather obvious, but if you have a flashback and the people are the same age as they were in the present time, that's not as much of an indication as the average movie would give. This hearkens back to loook what I said at the start. How like everything they did right, like they also did a step backwards, like trench just mentioned. They like change the aspect ratio and there's like a new color grade and everything for like the like foe like Vietnam War footage scenes. Also, they're not dags like like it looks cool because of the color grade and the new aspect ratio. It looks bad because, like the people are still old. It looks cool because, like all their costumes and guns are like historically accurate and everything, but then they're just like running around in the open, like it's like a like a bad video game and it doesn't look at all like the real Vietnam War footage that they show side by side with it looks like, and I thought that was really weird and like just like kind of lazy looking. Yeah, I agree. I I liked the fact that they shot on sixteen millimeter and they changed the aspect ratio of four by three. I thought that that was a novelty. That has film corn of sewers. We appreciated, but I agree that the flashbacks were by no means the strong suit. I read some complaints online about the accuracy in regards to the real Vietnam War and how a military advisor would have went a long way. What I mean, even to the eyes of me, who's like a layman, like look when the helicopter starts getting shot at and then they just hovered there instead of like leaving. That didn't make any sense. Never once have I really seen a helicopter crash and such a way and not explode. Also, everyone survived. Yeah, also, the crashed airplane was entirely empty except for the one case of like conveniently like cinematic centered gold that, if it had been scavenged, it seems like it would have, because they were completely surrounded by these...

...forces that seemed kind of coincidental. Driven back to the military advisor, like the they are. All the bloods in the flashbacks have M Sixteen S, which are not fully automatic, but they were all used like they were flashbacks. And the Internet complained about how they never changed Amma, and like they never changed their round. Yeah, and how the bloods were surrounded like a hundred to five and after shooting a few of them, they entirely retreated. Yeah, it was very strange. I thought that the final showdown at like the old ancient ruins was exceptional, though, like it was. Yeah, it was definitely better. It felt like there was more choreography put into that, I don't know, and there was a better sense of geography. I thought this movie's conclusion was going to be like the lesson learned was appreciate like humans over like material objects and wealth. And after losing eighty percent of the bloods, I thought the the end was going to be them sacrificing the gold to save their lives, which I feel like was the obvious and ending, and I was surprised at didn't go that direction. Yeah, I but I really like how Delroy Lindo lost his gold and then I gave it up for Norman like in his like delusional walking. I thought that was like a really like that. Did I? I will. I really love mad dictations. Yeah, and him talking into the camera, another spike Lee staple. That was powerful. Can we all agree Delroy Lindo and his characters the best stuff in the movie? Yes, is that Paul? Yeah, that's yeah. Do we agree with that? Because that for me, that's what it is, and that that's what seems to be getting the most like rave reviews and stuff. In like the very beginning I was like really thrown off by his performance. I feel like it's a portrayal of PTSD like I've never seen like an actor take that way and at first I was like this is like really foreign to me and like I'm not sure I like it. But like as it went on, I like I got really into his performance and I think particularly like the scene on the boat and like that like open water market mights and like someone trying to sell him a chicken and he like has like a panic attack on the boat. I thought that was amazing, like looks I agree, one of the best scenes of acting like that I've seen a long time. Like that was really, really good. What did you guys think about the like the assorted footage intro is? I thought it was really affective at setting the scene, not only in terms of, I don't know, refreshing the average viewers memory of of the events of the Vietnam War, but also setting the stage for, like the racial injustices that they'll be discussing. I thought it was really good. But again, like because it was really good, they also had to take a step back. And a step back was that? Like that, like the some of the war footage they show is like horrific and like gruesome and then like when we got again, like the foe old footage, I could just didn't live up to the to the...

...real stuff. When you do a sidebyside comparison like that, it's allowing the viewer to see like the flaws in the in the artistic interpretation when you show them the real thing. Otherwise they wouldn't have any frame of reference. It didn't bother me too much, but you I can see it being a misstep for some people. But yeah, the imagery within the first two minutes of the film you're seeing self immolation and you see someone's you see you watching a live execution and I was like damn, like that's what a way to set the tone. I don't think the rest of the film was as dark. Yeah, that was something I was was kind of taken aback by. I kind of expected it. I mean there's lots of there's lots of violence, but I don't know, I expected something kind of more brutal in some way, not necessarily physically, but like something darker. I feel like it kept a mildly light tone. I agree with that, but I also think I don't even sure when this happens in the movie. There was one scene that got like more like brutal and dark for me than the opening, when someone mentioned like like the all the kids, like all the Vietnamese kids that were killed, and they like show a couple images of like Vietnamese like children who've been bombed or something, and they were like or the Lama massacre. Yeah, that was I thought that was like incredibly upsetting. I on purpose and that was very effective. Go off of that point. I'm I like that they were able to make our heroes not necessarily the most righteous and they're the center problematic group and and the villains in quotes which would be. The Vietnamese people are not made out to be ridiculous, like killing machines, and it's like they've seen like like, like you said, like by showing that horrific murder, the horrific murders of like these children, you can totally understand and frankly, they're right that gold is meant for the Vietnamese people, and so I kind of like that it has that complexity. I wish that it had done something more. It's a complex issue that they present that they then solved with the simple answer that I kind of wish there was something more with it. The Vietnamese people originally are made out to be like the victims, like as they should be, but I think it's weird that they fall back into the role of the villains, like they want the same exact thing as our protagonists, and they probably have more of a reason, like that's rightfully their property. I think it's weird how you were put in a position to root for the five bloods when, objectively, they may be in the wrong, which makes me question because I think that, I mean, Spike Lee's not an idiots like, he's a really smart filmmaker. So that makes me wonder was he trying to make us uncomfortable with that, like was he cognizant of the fact that he was placing it, or was he just sort of didn't realize what he was doing with that? I don't know. I don't think...

...that it was like explicitly like the Vietnamese people have more of a right to the gold than the five bloods. I think they're making a case for reparations, which is a pretty strong case for stealing money from America. Well, I wasn't, I don't think. I don't think that the Vietnamese necessarily had more of a right, but they do have a valid reason in my eyes, for why they would want it and it. The only thing I find weird is that in the end they are codified as the bad guys. You mean? You mean like like the Vietnamese guys that show up with Laroche and like the final battle? Yeah, yeah, I feel like to me, I like I see how that could easily be read that way and like that's that was probably not a good way to end the movie in that regard. But I feel like to me I read that as like, like the capitalist French guy is like fucking over Vietnam again by sending these Vietnamese people to die. That's battle. That's what I'm saying. Like, I don't I don't know if, like Spike Lee, was trying to make a comment on the fact that, like these rich white European people are the people that are like kind of all the strings here, right. So, like he's fucking over Vietnam again. So then it makes me wonder, like Despike Lee is, is that what spike he's trying to say? Because it doesn't really to me come off like that's comes off to me like he was part of it. But it's also not like the Vietnamese aren't aware of what they're doing. I think it's intentionally ambiguous and in the same way as do the right thing is, where there's no right answer and it's meant to be discussed and argued and it's supposed to start a conversation. I think that like this is intentional, that like these white Europeans are pitting together two groups, like the Vietnamese and African Americans, who have been like horribly and graphically and violently wronged by the United States, like pitting them against each other and like a battle for what would essentially be reparations in the gold and that, like both the Vietnamese people and the five bloods have like a personal and like a greater sense of like how America has wronged them. They shouldn't have to fight each other for the reparations. They should fight the like white Europeans, but like because of the way the capital societies are built, like they're fighting each other. The thing is, I really like that. It's just that at the end of the day, even beyond killing the French guy, I don't know, it just felt like there was a weird and balance to me, because it doesn't feel like the Vietnamese people were given a fair shake. Yeah, I don't know, it just felt like it felt like to me like we were also supposed to root against the Vietnamese people. I agree. Yeah, I I agree. Yeah, I agree, because because that's that's my only issue with it, because I think that Spikeley was trying to do that, because he's a smart guy. He understands what he's doing, but I just think it doesn't come off that way. I don't know, it could have come off more morally ambiguous than yeah, we got what we wanted. It could have been a more nuance portrayal of, yeah, these fighters. This movie runs two and a half hours long and I think there were some subplots that were a little meand ring. First of all, I think establishing the French guy as...

...the as like the mastermind, was a little strange, because you meet him twenty minutes in and they're orchestrating this deal and they're like hey, kind of seems like you might screw us over and he's like yeah, I won't, and then he shows that and then he shows up with twenty minutes left and he's like, all right, you guys are right, I'm about to screw you over. That felt a little like sprung on. Also, the I'd say like Romantic subplot between Paul's son and the heady and heady the landmine woman. I understand that she had to be introduced somehow and that was an effective way to do that, but it was never really fully expanded upon. Also felt like their quote unquote, relationship was like a little weirdly developed, because it was like she was kind, kind of interested in him and then she's like, yeah, I wouldn't have sex with you if you were the last man on earth, or something like that, yeah, for all she's the gold in the world. Then she's okay with him again, and it just felt like things were just kind of happening on that front rather than like us feeling the change in their relationship. If that's going to be a plot in your movie, that's subplot. Didn't like do anything for me, but it didn't detract from the overall movie for me. What about the relationship between Otis and his Vietnamese lover and the daughter? I thought the like after we first see the daughter and she's obviously hit his and his childsually, his child, thought that was such a funny beat and, as like we I thought that beat went on so long and there's like intentional one what feels like I know. But then there's like what feels like minutes of like silence at the table and I'm like come on, just like just say it, like like everyone in the audience like is thinking it, like we know, we know what's going on. And then but it just like took longer for the characters and like I was like just like bored and that like minute of space where like I was like a come on, like just say it. Acknowledged this. I thought it was funny. I didn't really have a problem with it. I thought the character who was mourned the least was the the blood who jumped on the grenade in the end. Is he the character that said he would never jump under her and I really liked character arc there, and they never really made a deal out of it. I went. I'm glad they didn't, like, point out the fact that he said that earlier, because I remember that like that that would turned out okay. Also with the I'm not sure if it's can be even me considered a subplot, but with the guy with like the pain medication, Hmm, I'm not sure if that was a big Farma opioid epidemic commentary. I don't know what they were doing with the like it and stuff, because I feel like this movie is a lot about it is very much about how war can affects. Like most war movies, it's about how war affect soldiers, yeah, and the lingering effects that it...

...has, and on the whole, I feel like it does a good job of that. So I thought they were going to do something where like these vets have to like take the end up getting addicted to these pain killers because of you know the aftermath of things, but then they never really do anything. Like he goes, I'm not a junkie, and then he's also he's not a junkie, like I don't know what kind of shifting the conversation here to storm and Norman. I'm curious what your opinions of his characterization was, because in my opinion he was a little bit flat. Like I understand that he was like kind of supposed to be like both the Martin like and the Malcolm Yeah, for for the blood's and but and like one of the bloods has a line that's like something like like he taught us, like like he could. He taught them about the movement, he taught them about black power and that kind of thing, etcetera. HMM. And and we never really see him like I don't know, I feel like all the teachable moments we saw with him, we're like, like you control your own rage, and we're like personal, like here's what you should do with the movement on your own, and we're really like, I don't know, like I kept coming back to think about furious styles. I don't know if you guys have seen boys in the hood, but like that character is like like a like a black teacher to the Max. I put by Laurence Fishburn, and he's awesome, like talks about like everything that America has done to them, and I just feel like that piece of storm and Norman was missing and it would hind he would have been more effective if he had talked about like the wrongs as much as he talked about the solution, like personally and the reparation. I agree that you're more told that what he says is profound rather than being shown it because, like all of the characters like clearly admire him, but in the few like flashbacks you see with him, like he's clearly like their squad leader and they all respect him. ME, as the viewer, because I was only told about it, I didn't get the opportunity to be like well, I understand what all of them saw in this character and why they were so crushed by his loss. I wish I had loved him as much as they did. They did. Yeah, it's a good point. I feel like you needed a full on scene with him, which you never really get. I do think the sing were like he tells del Roy Linda that it's okay, and it was just a mistake was really good. Yeah, that's like in the present. That's a scene that would have so much greater payoff if we had a full scene with the bloods interacting like on a mission or something like that, because it felt like I was kind of surprised when I watched this movie because I thought the past is gonna the past. I thought were going to be. Well, chatters was going to be thought I did to. I thought he like I thought he was going to be the main character in the like flash vaccines, and there was just not that. I mean, I guess the Flashman and we're going to be like how they were. I'm from with I'm fine with there being few. I think Paul's character like accidentally killing storm and Norman made a lot of sense and it like put...

...into context why he was like so like why he was more upset that affected by it than anyone else. What we when we I didn't see that coming at the very beginning, but when we got to the scene, I wasn't so easy seeing him every night and I was like, Oh, this guy killed him. I didn't know it was going to be an accident. I thought like I thought even thought it would be more dramatic if he killed them on purpose. But do you think that other bloods knew, or do you think that it was like part of it? He lot of it was eating him, a lot of you keeping them the secret? Yeah, he, she said, like he was caught in the crossfire, something like the he didn't tell anybody. But also in the modern times, like when they asked him like why, like it's so acutely upsetting to him, he says like, I saw him die, like that's that's why it fucked him up, but it was. Yeah, Ye, shot. Well, I liked all the different characters. Had Different ideas on what they would spend their fortune on. How some we're holding on to the idea of giving it back to like the black community and continue your reparations, and others were gonna have personal use, and how the character of norm who was earlier thought to be the wealthiest of them, and how he was a big man, the coward character of Eddie, Eddie, excuse me, how he was a big name in the card dealership community, but how he'd lost it all, and I really think that they gave him that like lastminute personality because they were going to kill him a few minutes later. Yeah, but I didn't have a problem with it. One of the things I kind of like about this movie is, I mean, obviously it's about very distinctly five African American people, but, like I like in the movies, a lot of the Times what I find annoying is when you have a character that's in some way a minority, whether it's a black person or a woman or a or some other person of color, like what ends up happening is that it's like that one person that's black acts a certain way, and so it sort of happens that like, Oh, well, all black people are like that. And what I like about this movie is that it gives of a variety of like personalities and like values and things like that, and that's something that I really like about it, because it's like I agree with that. I don't know, like there's no there's no one way to be black, and there's also no one way for them to be affected by what they would happen exactly, which is something I really, I really appreciate when movies do that. Another dynamic that worked for me was between Paul and his son, because you could like see all of the like the tension and the the conflict there, but also like when Paul, like when the Sun, knew that his dad was like acting rather crazy, and first he adhered to it and like tied up the the landmine people and...

...then he decided to like betray him, and it was like so emotional when he liked disowned him, but he like had to make that decision for like the common good. Do you think I'm just another like silly moment just talking about Paul Sun? That thought when like Paul Son got shot in the leg and they like giving him a turniquet or whatever whatever, and he yells more house, I thought those yeah, but I don't think that was funny. And I was so funny. Like that was like I was like why did he say that like that? That was like like that was like a fully click comedic joke and I was like that was weird. I didn't have a ride. Thought it was funny. While we're on the topic of more house, I thought while the historic, the only historic cut away that didn't really build the foundation for anything was when he was when the more house guy was on the land mine and then he talked about like the runner. I got didn't bother me, like none of the cutaways to history bothering me, but I think the purpose of that was like, I don't know, he was inspired, like maybe I'm maybe I'm reaching or reading into this, but like he was inspired by a black hero and like that was how he was able to save his life. I always kind of tight took it as like the fact that Norman had had on everybody was that they had decided to become more educated upon on like black history and everything like that. Yeah, it's a good thing. So it would make sense then for him to like that to be a thing that he would tell his son at a younger age or something. What about the it? Do you know how there's like the radio cut of ways to the yeah, yeah, yeah, what do you think of that? I really enjoyed that wait and that was one that I had never heard of. Hannoy Hannah, and I thought that was incredibly interesting. She's a real or figure. Yeah, she is, and I thought that was like really cool. I didn't know that was a thing and it reminds me of like you probably know this, but like in the World War II, like the Nazis like dropped propaganda to the black soldiers about like how are you fighting? Like, why are you fighting if like the White Man war? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I thought that was really doped and Hannoy Hannah practically functioned by like allowing, by setting up music to be used in like a hygetic way. Okay, speaking of the diegesis when I remember when this happened. But when, like we're it's like a closeup on Paul's face and then we like changes aspect ratios and then goes back in time. Do you remember what I'm talking about? It like we like, we like see the screen shrink. I thought that was an insanely cool shop. I like it as well. I loved when they would cut two black and then it would they you could like see the aspect ratio expanding like vertically or horizontally, and just because it was like opening a window into like a new world and it was just very visually striking. We've spoken our thoughts on the film. Should...

...we should we assign an a rate rating? I think it's time. Oh, do you do? It's out of ten. Ok, yeah, the Jackson, as as the touring member say, please go first, have at it. Well, taken into account the highs and lows, this movie has for me, I think I'd go for a seven five. Being an average movie, I think I go first seven. I was going to say between a seven and an eight, so I'll I'll give it a seven point five, I would say, nate, a lot of the things that, like with the flashback stuff, didn't bother me so much. So I feel like that if that had bothered me it would probably have been a seven. But I thoroughly enjoyed my time and I think it was like markedly less impactful to me than do the right thing was. Yeah, the other two spike Lee movies I've seen being do the right thing and black clansmen, although I absolutely adore both of those movies because of how much I like those movies. It makes this my least favorite of the three. But, as we've discussed, that by no means makes it a bad movie. I think that's fair assessment. Wrap it up, parth. Well, to wrap this all up neatly with a bow, I guess we should thank our guests. When Thomas Production designers. I want to thank Jackson Clark for joining us for our discussion. Thank you for having me. It was a pleasure. It was our pleasure, so thank you. Folks, if you listen to our special two parter next week we're going to be talking about last black man in San Francisco, and with us we're going to have an assistant director on the film, Hilton J Day. So look forward to having you guys hear that. That's all for now. By.

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