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Episode 120 · 1 month ago

COLLATERAL (2004) Discussion

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Trent and Parth continue to podcast, despite the signs. 

M come on, I'll take I got five stops to make. What's your name Max? Max? I'm Vincent. I'll meet in the ally behind the building that's a hid he killed red light Max, hold on, hold on, and you're gonna drive me around to night and never be the wiser. But we're in the planing b now. We gotta make the best of it, improvised, adapt the environment. Whatever, man, we gotta roll with it. We just met him once, and your kid look like this. But I should only kill people after I get to know them. I'm not up for this. What are you gonna do about it? There's a man named vin I got another deal way he already killed with this. He's coming to kill you. Ida. What's like? What's my work? That's fine, so Trent, good to see you. Likewise, it feels like we haven't done this in a long time. It really does well. We haven't done a discussion for like three weeks now. I guess these two parters are really buying us a lot of time. And I think we took a week off. We did general on preparedness laziness, and we just we needed to record an intro. It was Thanksgiving break. It wasn't going to happen, um, but you know what has happened. We both watched Collateral and ate food. I was gonna say, we've both consumed something um in preparation for the episode or just like for our general health. But I guess if you only do it for the episode, that's nice. Um. I only started eating once once Craft Services started, so you can imagine what the first like nineteen and a half years of my life. It was like it was a waiting game. But what have you eaten? Most recently I had a Ramen cup um with the little dehydrated vegetables and the sauce in the oil packet. And then I'm a very college student of you, I had a similar thought. It's not something I do particularly a lot, but um, financially, I feel like I'm I'm sort of on my heels right now, and so I've been trying to see what of my pantry I can eat, and so last night I had pancakes and apple, and tonight handcakes and apple. Part we need outside the box think thinking. And this morning UM was maroach in. Well it wasn't Raman formally, but you know, some sort of knockoff but I'm putting I'm picking up what you're putting down. But it wasn't the bag where you need to boil water separately. It came in the cup and then you fill it to the fill line, which is a feature that I really admire, and then you can just throw it away after which in the grand scheme of things, is probably bad, but in short term thinking, I appreciate it. What about you, um, I had? I'll say the last three things I ate. I mean it goes against the structure of the show, but other than that's cool. Well, I can go backwards, so I can tell you the thing I most recently ate and then just go back from there. Um. Well, the last the last two things I ate are kind of in conjunction with each other. I had two day old Crispy Cream doughnut, um, which I had gotten um two days ago from when I was leaving New York for my last day for my internship. That's when you were. And now that you're safely off the premises, we can say you were trying to waste time because you were asked on my last day. On my last day, I was procrastinating pretty badly. You were like, Trent, please send me the cut of your student film under no other circumstances. What I want this, but I really want to kill time. It's the exact words. I also had one strawberry frosted pop tart, just those two things, because I was feeling a little peckish before the show. And before that. For lunch, my first real meal of the day, I had some dragon chicken from Gin soy Um, which has managed to last me three to three different meals. Wow, yeah, is where we went that one time? Remember that? Yes, no, I'm aware, I remember at the time. I would be shocked if my mom listened to this collateral discussion. So I so I think we can. We can talk honestly about what happened if we do want me to succinctly summarize what happened, Um, sure, So basically me and my mom and you or me you...

...it was it was going to be me, my mom and Jackson. It was gonna be you, your mom and Jackson. We're going to go to lunch and j and Jen soy was the decided place, which is the through line in this story. And then and then you added Sarah, Yeah, because she was going to be your roommate yes, and my mom had not yet met Sarah. And so coincidentally, all of us are sort of hanging out at your apartment, which was right by Jin. SOI like an hour or so, this is going to happen. And so we had Sarah no, no, no, no, no, no, this that that happened after but the Trent. Do you not remember the man across the building? Oh my god, that's all the same story. Same day, Samet, same day. Let me tell this. You and Jackson were going to go to lunch with your mom because she wanted to take you out for lunch. And then you said, well, can Sarah come because she's going to be my roommate and she said okay, sure, and then uh, then the three of you came over to my apartment the night before because I was having a party at my apartment. And then and then, um, just before you came over to my apartment, you told your mom, hey, can we add part along? Because um, you know he's my part he's my roommate. Wait, no, he's my podcast co host. I think you still may have not met you by that point. No, she had not. I had never met your mom. And then um, your mom was like Okay, yeah, I mean, I guess that makes sense. But then you could feel the tension in her voice starting, well, I didn't know. I was not privy to this. All I knew was you told me, Hey, you want to come to lunch with my mom? And I was like all right, sure, And then um, I was just trying to I was just like, we're doing this, so let's kill as many birds with this single stone as possible. Oh, kill as many birds. That's that's um what Trent calls spending time with me. And let's let's just make this a mega lunch. And then to end all lunches. Because I was having this party, of course, that was the weekend, and in front of the show, Sophia Alexis came along or came came to my apartment and I told Sophie like, oh, like, I guess I'm gonna have to be gone for lunchtime. And she was like all right. And then Trent said, wait, why don't you come along? You can come along too, and I was like, alright, it works for me, and Sophia was like worked for me. And so the morning after the party, you call your mom and we're all hanging out in my living room and then Trent sort of hides off into my room where Sophia Alex's is trying to sleep after being um, I guess incapacitated from the night before. Um, and UM, I think we should take a pause and the story and talk about the man across the street. That's that's gonna take so long? Uh? Well do what how about this? Well for the if you are interested, there's a crazy story coming for you at the end of this episode. Okay, okay, fine, Um, But anyways, Trent hides off into my room and then I'm like hanging out talking with the people still there, and then I'm like, whoa, Um, Trent's been gone for a bit, and I go back and I just see like, like I see Trent just like not having a good time on the phone with his mom. And then afterwards, Um, Trent, do you want to say what the conversation I was. I wasn't there. UM. I won't get too into the details, but basically, just my mom was like, you have grown this launch one person too large, and not that I believe the words you said were we're just adding anybody now when when when we added he was like and we're just adding parts girlfriend now and you were like, these are my dear ist friends. Yes, that is true, and you do you do have stuck around years later, but um, I yes, And so now we joke that my mom secretly hates Sophia Alexis even though they have never met and have no reason to have. They have met. They have met when when you me and Jordan and Sophia went to the beach. Oh, you're correct, um, But other than that, I don't think there's there's been any contact. At the same time, I once brought I was trying to bring I love interests to the house on my father's birthday dinner question Mark, and my mom said, why you bring this person? We're never going to see them again. And so it's just like phone calls and my mom sometimes. But I saw last night great lady came to support me at the showcase. So these cancel each other out. And if Mom, you're listening to the to the if you listen to the collateral discussion, I am thoroughly shocked,...

...and I apologize and if uh and if not, no one tell hier please. And with that, let's cue the intro. Welcome back to Craft Services, where we talk about the movies. Each week we talked about a film. I hope we have remember of the film to talk with about their experience working on the picture. The last two weeks, who have we had Trent set designer Clint Wallace And for what film? Trent Michael Mann's Collateral and he also worked on such films as The Curious Case of Benjamin Button, john Wick, Three, Parabellum, Top Gun, Maverick Um, and additional examples. Just some films. John Wick is a movie that to my mind several times while watching this film, Yeah, especially one scene what the like the dance? Yeah? Um, so part we have a whole film to discuss. But something today happened to me that has never happened to me when we when we started this call, Trent said that he had something important and crazy to tell me, but that he was saving it for when we were actually recording so we could do it on air. I don't know if I can seriously classify this as important but noteworthy for sure. Okay, Um, so let me set the stage. I am in the room that I'm in now, and I'm cleaning my room and it smelt a bit musty, and yeah, I mean no surprises there, and so I thought, let's crack, let's crack a window. Let's get some air in here. And so I opened the window in my closet and another one like near my bed, and the one near my bed the screen is up because sometimes when I close my closet door, like my drawers sort of like it's hard to explain, but my drawers from my dresser poke out, and they make it hard to open the door, and so I have to climb out through the window, onto the roof, out into the other window in through that and then open the door that way. And so a long way of saying that the screen is not on one of the windows. And um, so I'm standing there cleaning my room and I see a squirrel crawl up my window and through my window and it's standing on my hamper in my room, and um, I just stared at it for a while, and then I was like, if this squirrel like wants to come in here and like find food or like crawl under my bed, like, it's going to be like a whole day thing trying to get it out. And so I just like raised my I kind of used like what tactics I would use for a bear, and I like raised my hands really big and I just sort of like barking at it. I was like, move, get out, get out, and after like and it for a while, like was surprisingly unfazed. And then I started creeping closer and then and then it ran out the window. But there's a squirrel. There's a squirrel in my room today. That that was pretty crazy. I would classify that as important. Yeah, that's all. Yeah, nice, What do you think about that? Is? Again, I'd classify it is important, an important story, well, an important story for craft services lower. Yes, yes, yes, yes you should add some squirrel sound effects, but I will say that I can do um. When I lived in Jackson's small room, squirrels would like crawl on the window sill and like I would look at them through the screen and I was like, oh, this is so cute and nice. But I hate to say how quickly the cute factor was gone once there was a fear of the squirrel actually being loose in my house. Yeah, I felt like I would have had to call someone and pay someone, or I would have had to like irresponsibly just try to like trap it in a garbage bag. And yeah, someone someone would have gotten hurt. Well, we've been talking for a long time even haven't even attempted, not gotten. And so you want to start. You want to Oh you want a podcast, No, well we've been podcasting. That's not the questions. Do we want to try to be productive with the podcast?...

And they go through our normal sections. I think so, I think maybe it's your turn to give a five or sorry ten words. Synopsis of the film great, um, professional assassin must kill five people in one night, and then I have one extra word. I'm just gonna say, taxi. Okay, um. Well, The official IMDb synopsis is a cab driver finds himself the hostage of an engaging contract killer as he makes his rounds from hit to hit during one night in Los Angeles. It's hard to say like that. Jimmie Fox is obviously like proposed as the main character, but I don't know why. In my head, I mean, it's Cruisi Blues, after all, it is Cruisi Blues. But at least in terms of explaining what the movie was, I I don't sort of told through Jimmy Fox's perspective, but like this is this is like all the act Shin crew. It's definitely. I think it's definitely Max's movie, especially by the end, especially since he's playing the same character that he plays in An Amazing Spider Man Too, where his name is also Max and he's also like a sad New Yorker with big glasses. Well he's in l a but yeah, oh yes, yes, true, Sorry, there you go. Okay, just part of costum gets it away. But it's a pretty important Max. It's written on your beddy. Hey, you're not a nobody, You're somebody like that. All listen to me. I need you here, my eyes and ears out here. Alright, alright, Trent, do you want to give me the budget and box office please? Yes, yes, sir. The budget is sixty five million dollars and the box office is two and twenty point nine million dollars. Not bad. No, it's no Avatar to the Way of Water out this weekend. Sorry, projected to gross like six hundred million dollars this weekend. Well part if they don't become the fourth biggest grossing movie of all time, they lose money, so there's a lot at stake. Hey, never bet against James Cameron. There was so much I feel like Avatar apathy in the air, and now that I've started to sniff it out there, like the Avatar supporters are there. You just have to look there they are, They really are. I'm Shoal came by the equat room yesterday and he's I'm pretty sure he said something to the effective I'm gonna go see Avatar for the next three days. And I wish I felt so strongly about something, but I guess I felt that strongly about Top Top Maverick, Yeah, you're not gonna be ready for when am I seven comes out if you thought Top Gun was bad anyways, um production history, please so. Writer Stewart Beattie took a cab home from the Sydney Airport when he was seventeen and had the idea for homicidal Maniac sitting in the back of a cab with the driver talking to him. He wrote a two page treatment titled The Last Domino, and then began writing a screenplay around that treatment MHM. The original story centered around an African American female cop who witnesses a hit and the romance between the cab driver and his then librarian girlfriend, and the final film obviously has limited resemblance to the original treatment, so While waiting tables, Beatty comes into contact with Julia Richardson, a producer who was working um for Frank Darbant, Rob fried Or Freed and Chuck Russell's company Edge City, and they were trying to make movies at HBO. So beat pitched the Last Domino, got a meeting, and got the project set up at Edge City, but after two drafts, HBO passed on the project. After a general meeting at dream Works, beat mentioned the script to executive Mark Haymes, who read the script and put an offer on it the next day. Isn't seeing the DreamWorks logo at the star of this like very intense adult movie, pretty surreal. It's this combined with saving Private Ryan. Really weird to see that little boy um in in the in the d um wait fishing fishing off the moon, fishing off the moon. Isn't the DreamWorks logo? Is any fly fishing now? Yes, he always was, but they've changed it to like it's like a Marvel style logo, Like yeah, at least one more thing is you know, um, we should Marvel five this podcast, like we should do like quote like he's right behind behind me. Director Mimi Leader Letter and cinematographer Janice Kaminski, Hey Spielberg's guy, We're attached to the project. They dropped the project and then it later went to Brazilian director Fernando Mirielli is Mirals anyways, who turned it down because he would have had to move to l A for eight months. He...

...wanted the film to be a comedy in the vein of After Hours, which I can kind of see with this concept it kind of is, but like not as like funny, um intentionally, so, yeah, funny is not one of the first one hundred words that comes to my mind. This movie is kind of funny. He didn't kill him. Bullets in the fall killed him. That's hilarious anyways, Um. Russell Crowe, Mark Ruffalo's hair and facial hair is the most humorous thing happening in this film to me. Russell Crowe was interested in the role of Vincent and got Michael Mann involved, and it originally took place in New York City but was revised to be set in l A. Once Man came aboard, pro left due to delays in production. Man then approached Tom Cruise with the intention of Cruise playing Vincent and add Adam Sandler playing Max. Sandler dropped out due to scheduling conflicts with Spanglish, so at least he got to make English. In the end, Beatty wanted to hire Robert de Niro is Max, but the studio wanted somebody much younger. Cuba Gooding Junior turned down the role as he thought it would be miscast, and Man did not want him because it would remind audiences of Jerry McGuire if he cast for Robert Nero. This would just be heat too. Yeah, kind of extra heat. Um, he too, get out the case. Finally, Jamie Fox was offered the role. Um. To prepare for his role, Cruise worked as a FedEx delivery man. Um. Oh, man, I see the little touch you did there. Do you want to tell the audience what that is? Or yeah? Sorry, visual joke. In the production history it says FedEx delivery man and then there's an extra and in parentheses in reference to Michael Mann, the director of the film, I knew that you would like and therefore include this Tom Cruise FedEx thing because when when when? When? When? Image? It creates my mom Um. Also, something I didn't include in the production history. Um, but is true is that Tom Cruise would, while preparing for the role, would choose certain he would be given by Michael Mann somebody to like tag and like follow and then put a hit on them, and Tom Cruise would have to like hide in plain sight and just sort of follow these crew members around and like come come up to them with a fake like finger gun and like be like got you. Wow. Um, I can't decide how I feel about that. Um. I can't tell if it's like futile in like the Daniel day Lewis trying to build a log cabin before doing like a sixteen hundreds movie. But I I like the idea of Tom Cruise finger gunning people. Isn't that crazy? Isn't that so funny? Anyways? Um, It's like it's like I'm envisioning Tom Cruise doing like the Jackass thing where he sneaks up. Have you haven't you only seen the newest Jackass? I've never seen any of them. Oh well, basically in the first few Jackass films, John Knoxville will like sneak up behind someone and it'll be like a p o V camera and he'll have like a restraint razor and then he'll just like boast people's heads from behind and like the psycho music will play, And that's what I'm envisioning, Tom Cruise drying with a finger. Imagine getting your hair buzzed off and you turn around and Tom Cruise. Jada Pinkett Smith spent time with an eternal to inform performance. Oh mop ah, do you want to insert the keep my wife's name? Cheer fucking now? I like that. That's the It was a g I Jane Joe. Anyways. Val Kilmer was originally casting the film as Detective Fanning, but exited to start on Oliver Stone's Alexander, which led to Mark Ruffalo's casting. Um. Jason Statham made a small appearance in a role on accredited as airport Man, and Louis Literier, co director of The Transporter, interpreted Statham seen as a portrayal of his Transporter character Frank Martin. Yeah, when you see a famous person in an early scene, even if they later become famous, you think he's got to come back later. This has to be narratively important and it's just an early Jason Statham portrayal of air of Guy in Airport. Filming took place throughout Los Angeles with Los Angeles International Airport in Korea Town being used for set pieces, and filming was also done in Pico Rivera, California. For filming the cab crash scene. It was Fox driving the vehicle with Cruise in the backseat. After three weeks of filming,...

...cinematographer Paul Cameron left the project due to creative differences with Man, and cinematographer Dion Biebie was brought on to replace him. Man chose to film using the Viper film stream high definition camera to film many of collateral scenes, though the sequence of the nightclub was shot in thirty five millimeter film. James Newton Howard composed a score, with Antonio Pinto providing additional music, and the film was released on August six, two four to a very positive critical reaction. All of the all, all of the casting what ifs are like really crazy and really this could have been a very different movie, especially like Adam Sandler. It feels like this is so far from what it would be, such a different try. Yeah, um, well, like I think Max is like sheepish and I don't I don't know that, Like I guess he is kind of sheepish in like punch drunk love but in a very different way. I'm just imagining the water boy in inserted into this like pretty serious movie for men. I could I could more imagine like like late career Adam Sandler is vincent or like it's like like like if his character and utcut Gems was not like a dufus, you know what I mean. Like, it's like if you've checked Hube HALLOWEENA. I actually think it's a really good portray exactly what you're trying to talk about. I feel like no um woman on Planet Earth is like, yo, I actually love Collateral. Uh, that's not entirely true. I mean there are but it well, Michael mann On the whole kind of makes movies. It's in the it's in the name. But yeah, you know what I mean, Like he makes like like I don't know the heat is really a four quadrant No. Yeah, but I was gonna say he is good enough where it extends past the threshold where you can be like but like but like it's really good to be fair. I did show Sophia Alex's friend of the show, Sophia alexis this movie not a male, not the local female from Sophia alexis this movie like two months ago and she really enjoyed it. Yeah, and this is quite a boy movie, isn't that shocking? Sophia hates boy movies? Yes, yes. And I thought like comedy and like action were like her two greatest opponents. And I would say she she can enjoy an action movie more than a comedy, is my opinion. I don't think, but I think she she's mostly bored by both. I don't think we have enough time to get into understanding what your what your good friend doesn't like about sitting in a movie theater and laughing amongst other movie goers, um for for for ninety to one minutes. But I say we just keep chugging along and to the fun facts. Nice, nice intra or transition. Thanks so. Tom Cruise really fell when he stepped on the office chair, and Michael Mahn like the anomaly so much that he left it in the film. Javier Bardam only filmed for two days, but spent several months learning to speak English with the Mexican inflection for the role. I would just hire someone with Mexican inflection. You know, two months seems like a long time for two days of shooting. It's like my mom always says, if you're taking a vacation like that means like there's at least two travel days, and so you need to spend it four days at the destination. So double the amount of travel days in order to make the vacation worth it. And so I think Michael Mann should have used my mom's vacation policy with Javier Bardam's learning to speak English with the Mexican inflection for the role. Tom Cruise's tackle draws so good in a scene from Clauda ho role that it's used by experts in lessons for handgun training. You've talked about this um. Edward Norton was offered both lead roles, which, like now we're talking, I could I could honestly see him as either, like I think Tom Cruise the like Oddly enough, like I I'm glad he didn't. He's not Tom Cruise's role because Tom Cruise is kind of It's both the reason literally and figuratively that I think we're talking about this movie. But I think ed Norton being in this instead of Tom Cruise is a mistake. And I think Jamie Fox does what is asked of him. But ed Norton is just a more interesting actor to me than Jamie Fox. So we'll talk about that later. But um, I was gonna say, ed Ed Norton is like can be both like like scary enough to be Vincent and like weasily enough to be Max. You know what I mean. Yeah, So Tom Cruise trained for three months how to...

...handle firearms under the supervision of the l A p D. This is the first time Cruz had worked with live rounds. Remember in the interview when we just if he they used live rounds on set and and set designer Clint Wallace was taken aback and he was like, maybe they used live rounds in the prep. So there's a quote from Michael Mann's is Tom is extraordinarily skilled at everything athletic that he tries. M I'm just gonna let that breathe for a second. Um, And Vincent tells Max that his father was abusive and died of liver failure. In real life, Tom cruiss father was abusive and died of cancer. I guess not of the liver though, so well, I mean it could be, we don't know. I feel like it would have included that. Well. I know that Tom Cruise hasn't revealed what his dad died of other than cancer. So it sounds like, um, I feel like we're also still in Magnolian mode where Magnolia is also inspired by the real life death of Tom Cruise's father. Yeah. Wow, And we're talking about Steven Spielberg next week, Like once you're in cruise mode, because because you talked about his DP. Once you're in cruise mode, it's hard to get out. Yeah, waiting on the cruise of Palooza. There's no coming off. We might just have to pivot what this show, just change it to a Tom Cruise podcast. No, just maybe readjust our goals, but what we're trying to accomplish, and our new goals being we're creating thousands of jobs. You motherfucker's you should include that clip your movies right out because it believe that what we did. Sure producers, and they're looking at us and using us to make that movie. We are. I don't I don't want to see you yet. And if you don't do it, your fire, I see you do it to get you gone, and anyone on this crew doesn't. That's it, and you do, and you do it and you do it again. Okay, your apologies you can talk to the people are living for our industry and shut down talking. Put food on the table. I'm taking the try dead taste. That's why I'm gonna say. I'm beyond your poet. I told you. Yeah, if you can't do it, you're at you're listening, kay stop, I see you about it? Show you how Yeah, I'm just telling you what what to include. At this point, that clip has appeared in several several of um alright one star reviewed time. Do you want to go first? Or should I? Um? I'll go first. Um. So this is written by a person called CMZ, so it's TMZ's cousin. Um and it says just shooting people for no reason, and then it says, don't really know the plot, no twist, just shooting people. Don't waste your time watching just shooting people. Oh wow, that makes this review more interesting. Yeah, I mean, I can see what they're going for, but it's funnier if they think that it's just showing people. Yeah. This next one is from Amazon customer and it says skim my roommate ordered this on my account by accident, And they're quotes around the accident like they have a complicated relationship with their roommate. Was the movie a one star? I don't know. Was it worth four dollars to have someone else watch it? Dot dot dot Absolutely not. This seems like they need to leave Amazon customer on their roommate. Well, this was recorded at August. Who knows what's happened since then. It's like in um, do you know have you watched the rehearsal? Mm hmm do you know where the where this is going? Okay, so quickly for the people at home, if you've watched the rehearsal, there's the episode where they go to the woman who is the mother, the mother and quotes of the of Nathan's theoretical child in quotes, and she's looking for a partner to parent. You're making a silly face to make me try to mess up, um, But she's looking for a partner and one of the guys she tries dating is just like this kind of foolish guy. And Nathan goes to his house and meets his roommate and they get into a fight and it's played for laughs and then and it's...

...well, I guess was the thing on Twitter? More recently, after it came out that someone messaged the guy and said like, ha ha, what's have you in your roommate like sort of things out and he was like, bless up. My roommate got hit by a car and is dead. Like, thank god, I was praying for this. You don't have a license plate, No, it's okay, but don't you need a license plate to drive? You don't need a license plate to drive? No? Wow, I did not know that. Oh really, you didn't even know the part that he was dead. Oh oh yeah, yeah no, I mean that that's the punch line. That's crazy, um supposedly but yeah, And so this leaves the last one for me. This one's by Mr C. Gardner, and it says copyright infringement. And it says I should have read the small print, could not play it on my English player. Amazon should not support selling stuff that defies copyright. What this person? I think this is a copyright issue. I think this is like a zoning problem. Yeah, you bought something that's not the same region. Yeah, but I like the idea that this is copyright infringement. I just thought that was funny. I like anyone who puts their Amazon name as this would be like Gardner, this would be like if my Amazon name was Mr Teo Gare, it's you're Mr P. Murraate. That's true. Okay, Um, well where does this leave us? This leaves us to talk about the film, doesn't it? Talking about this is basically we're just gonna be man splanning at each other, as in like literally Michael Man's plaining man splaining. Um, well, I know how I feel, and because I chose this mini series and I chose the films in it, um, and we all know the reason we did Cruisi Palooza. Um. But I'm wondering how you felt. Um, I don't know because wait, because you you've seen this movie over many months. Essentially, I'd say my viewing habits of this movie have been the most chaotic of any movie that we've attempted to talk about on the show. In that before the interview, I definitely watched the first half at least twice. Um. And then yesterday when we were gonna do the discussion before I read scheduled because because I was so sleepy, I watched like the first two thirds and then again I was like, I still don't really know what's going on, so I should start from the beginning and so I've seen the beginning of this movie at least four times, and I've seen the end of this movie at most one to one time, and that was only because I very was the past two days, this movie has caused me to fall asleep, And so I only know how this movie ends because I scrubbed to the end and watched the dramatic final final scene just the way Michael Mann intended. Yeah, I mean every filmmaker dreams of their film being watched in parts and like on my laptop with really bad sound. Um. But I've said this, this isn't a fair thing to say. But this movie just makes me think of other movies that I like more. And it makes me think of Zodiac because it's Mark Ruffalo being a California police officer. And it makes me think of John Wick, which I would just rather be watching. And it makes me think of Heat, which I would also just rather be watching. Wow, these are fighting words, um, And it makes me think of Amazing Spider Man two for obvious reasons, which you would also rather be watching. Wrong in that, Like, I'm not willing to go on the record of saying that, but I think like behind closed Doors, I might say that. Wow. Um, that is wild. And this is a movie that I will say, like like I I respect what it's going for, but just like not not my cup of tea, Like like I feel like boy, movies like this, like they need to be like die Hard or like John Wick or like just like so clearly undeniably awesome to get through my sensibilities of trying to like weed through like Skyscraper or whatever between the Rock Johnson movie or a rampage rampage Yeah wait Black Adam, m yep, oh wait, but we...

...can't make fun of Black Adam. Our boy John Lee edited it, really he did. All right, that's our board right there. Um. But other than that, uh my, my, my feelings are sort of fleeting. Wow, this is heartbreaking. I've I'd love to hear what you like about this movie. Like, okay, when Tom Cruise, like like when he kills the people in like the alley, and then he like does like the additional shot yeah no, literally that lion dialog in particular, and then he does the extra shot as he's walking away, your homie, there are my briefcase. The briefcase. Yeah, it is why you want it back? Oh what well? She got huh m, Like, like there are little moments like that that are awesome and I just needed that, just like the scene and this where they just like it's like basically just a music video and they just play like the most two thousand four songs ever and just them driving around and just kind of a montage. I'm just like, what's going on? Wow, that's the stuff I love. UM, Like, I really like Okay, So here's my take on the movie, which is that I think that the like first half it's like five stars, and then the second half. So the half I've seen four times, yes, um, and the second half is a force. Well, I don't know that I would rate it like five stars, but I just mean that it's like really great at what it's doing and like what it's Yeah, it's like a really great thing, and then the second half becomes pretty good. Um. And but like I I really like, um the two characters of Vincent and Max. Um. Like, I kind of disagree with you on Jamie Foxx in this movie. I think that he's really good at portraying a certain kind of character which is I think pretty difficult to play, which is somebody that's Max as a character it is so pathetic. Um, but he never plays that in such a way where it makes him unlikable. Yeah, And and like his romance kind of with Jada Pinkett Smith could come off as like creepy and that he's like taxicab hitting on hitting on his plan. He's like so suffocatingly nice that you can't make that. Yeah, and not and but but not suffocatingly like he It's not like it's not like he's Mr. Nice guy or something like that. And I think that that's he straddles a really good line there. And I really like him and Cruises dynamic with each other on screen. I like it when you feel like when Tom Cruise is like talking to his his like operator guy, and you can like see Tom Cruise encouraging him to be more than he is a fatass anyways. Um. But it extends so much so that when, uh, when Jamie Fox's character is like having the meeting with Javier Bardam, I believe is that who he's playing. I was just like already days before that, but I was like, we got this character to have this interaction like an hour into the movie. Yeah, Well, I mean it's quite the transformation. Well that's the thing I like seeing Max's UM. I like that like Max and Vincent or two people on opposite sides of the spectrum in terms of one is willing to do whatever it takes to get what he wants as like a hit man, and the other is has this stream of being like I'm gonna, like make the smooth limo ride, but like it's not willing to He's too scared to go out of his comfort zone to get it done. And I like seeing those two sort of go against each other UM in that way, And that's why I really like the scenes of the two of them, like UM talking with each other. I think that like putting it against a movie like John Wick is almost unfair. It's fair in the sense of like the action, UM, but I would say that like one is much more interested in with the characters at hand. UM. Then as much as I love John Wick and I worked for thunder Road so nothing but love, but UM, I think that like the point of that is to have action, and the point of this, I think is to sort of see these characters go through um their arcs and fundamental Like I would agree with you that the movie is UM. I think...

I would be less emphatic about it, truly, honestly, and not just because I'm a Cruise guy, but I think his performance in this is really good, like really good. And I think that him as a bad guy, he's already scary, you know what I mean, Like Cruise is already scary, and having him be a fucking hit man and he's a robot like he he moves with such intensity and with such vigor that you're just like horrified at what he might do. And I think he plays that really well. And I think one of the things this movie does that I don't think a lot of other movies can utilize as well is his coldness that he can have. Um. I mean, there's the famous story of Christian Bale saying that he based his character Patrick Bateman um off of an interview he saw of Cruise where he said that he saw intense friendliness with nothing behind the eyes. Um. And I think that this movie uses the nothing behind the eyes thing um too really great effect. And I think that makes this movie from a pretty good movie to a pretty great movie in my books. But I will agree it's not perfect. I think that second act makes it go into all right, this is pretty good territory. Yeah, I mean, I like, I like any movie that I don't know why. It kind of it reminded me of Scott Pilgrim Versus the World, only in what way, in the way that it's sort of laid out that, like we need to do these five things and then you can sort of track your progress through through the movie. Yes, and I like that that meant. But I thought in high school, me and my friends would make like we would like make a list and like ranking all of the Scott Pilgrim fights. And I really hope that no one is making a list ranking the kills in Collateral because I think none of them are that exciting or just like there's no they don't feel that different from each other. I don't know that I agree with that. I mean, the first kill you don't really see. I mean that's when the one lands on the the top of that guy. Um. But I don't view this as an action movie, like in the same way that I view Well, maybe my problem is that that is the mindset I was trying to have, and so everything that wasn't the action scenes just felt like we were moving from one scene to the I would never ask you to do this anytime soon. But I would ask you to go rewatch it the whole way through. Um, not going in wanting like a John Wick or a or something like that, where like that is the point, because I think that there is something um with the characters that's deeper. Um. I also have to say that I'm not sure how this factor is in on a formal basis, but also just after all the things we've heard about Michael Man being not the nicest person to work with on set, I have we kept any of that on the record, I'm pretty sure we did. Um. Yeah, but off the record, we've heard some crazy things about Michael Man. Yes, uh. And I we won't spend too much time on this. But just I'm a little predispositioned to not like the movie The Man because being nice people is like a really good cool quality. It's like a thing I think that moment, I guess. But I mean, if your friends, if you if you like David fincher movies, He's not exactly the Night. I mean, he's not abusive in the same way that I think Man can be. But like, but I mean, when we talk about David Fincher on the show, no one is like secretly like trashing him behind his fair enough, fair enough, But like, I don't know that that's like holly a fair thing to put because it doesn't show up in the movie. I think, like if you watch like a Woody Allen movie where he's trying to like have sex with seventeen year old girls, like it's in the movie and so it's way it's way more difficult to separate, Yeah, separate that. But I don't know that that shows up other than the sort of detail obsessive like he makes movies about professionals that are the best at what they do. Um, I don't know that that shows up in the movie. Um, but yeah, I don't know. I think, what what did you think that it looked...

...weird? In terms of the digital cinematography of it all? Isn't this like sort of right at the cusp of when films? Because when you said that it was shot digitally, I was sort of surprised because of the timeline of it, because isn't this right in the time when things could kind of go either way. It's just before that time. Um. So Attack of the Clones is like the first major motion picture to be shot all digitally and it's shot at like ten a DP and looks like shit, no offense. Um. But to Mark Sexton, storyboard artist on the film beloved guest, yes right by the very good episode with the Tom Cruise story in it, no less but I think um so so anyway, so Attack of the Clones comes out that has that's fully digital. And then for this movie, because so much of it takes place at night and digital cameras have are better with light sensitivity. Um, Michael Mann's like, all right, I'm gonna go. I'm gonna go digital mode. Um for for a lot of the night stuff that isn't the club scene. Yeah. I mean, I'm sure there's other stuff that's shot on film too, but a lot of this stuff that's like at night outside in l a um is all kind of shot digitally because uh, they can capture it better. Um. I mean it's it looks weirdly enough. I think it got kind of a bad rap when it came out for the digital look of it, because people were like, this doesn't look like film, And I think it's kind of reverted somehow where I think because so many more movies are shot or most movies now or shot digitally Um, it doesn't look odd as much anymore. Um. But yeah, but then so two thousand four is when this gets released, so shot in like two thousand three, and then this camera is then used on Superman Returns which is two thousand six, and I think maybe also on Zodiac which comes out the next year. Um, and that, and I would say like two ten is where movies are like one way or the other. Like, yeah, okay, because two ten is when the Social Network comes out, and the red camera on that is pretty fucking awesome for the time. Um, and then it's it's all digital. I'm just thinking about how didn't Clint Wallace set designers say that this was like eight eight straight nights or something like that. Yeah, because it's all takes place continuously. That sounds like a fucking hell shoot, yes, it does sound I know in both of our film careers, probably inevitably there will be a time where where like nocturnally flipped for a night shoot like that, And only in my most depressed moments in Utah did I have a sleeping schedule like that. And it's not good. No there at all. You know, not seeing the sun is not good. I'm a research assistant on I have the duck um and um. I recently done an episode for them for Day of the Dead, where they did um well wait, I guess that was slightly different. But for Day of the Dead they filmed in like a real mind um and so they would wake up dangerous. They would wake up at five Well it's like discontinued but um but like yes, but yeah, people got very sick after filming, probably as the air quality, but they would wake up Miners feel miners like children, Trent. Do you wonder how children feel about this? No, I just meant like miner's lungs. Given that they do it for a profession, they're like that. That is probably a long term struggle for them. Anyways. Uh, They people on Day of the Dead would have to wake up at four am, go into the mind film all day, and then get out at like twelve am or something like that or wait, not twelve, but like like at night. And so for like three months they did not see daylight and that sounds terrible. Yeah. I saw a time lapse recently and it was like and it was like six cats in one house, which is a problem of itself, but it was like cats over the course of the day, all like working very hard to move into like the single beam of light reflecting onto the ground, like through the window and showing that like creatures need some light that they do. Yes, we were really we're really in the...

...the weeds. Yeah for like, yeah, um, where do we go from here? Well, obviously world of worlds. But in terms of salvaging this episode, well, I mean, like, it seems you didn't let's go into the ratings gauntlet. I guess wait, oh no, oh, dear not again part I really wanted to go into the ratings Trent Christopher Nolan, he's shooting Oppenheimer, He's testing out a practical bomb. Help, we're die christ Never don't you want to get killed by Christopher Nolan's test atomic bomb? Yeah, and then you can get like and then you can get like a this movie is dedicated to At the end, I guess if I was immortalized through Nolan's film, Yeah, I'm sure you would take You would take that over living out your remaining years. Yeah, I mean, what's there left? You know, I'm I'm sacrificing myself so I can get us so I get a special thanks in the Barbie in the Barbie film. Yeah, I see, do you see the trailer came out today? I saw the Little two tease, but I didn't know if it extended further than that. And I know you guys feel strongly about not watching trailers, and so that I don't. I don't, I don't mind watching. Jackson doesn't like to. Oh, okay, then then I think this won't be the first one. I'm saying this, but I agree with you and Jackson stupid sometimes. I I just I'm at a point where I don't care about spoilers the movies the movie if I mean, I'm not going to seek them out. And for movies I care about, I'm going to try not to watch or like it wasn't the spoilers. But makes sense because if you're at the movie theater, you're not going to leave the theater during the trailers. Yeah, but I don't know, and so sort of why why I avoid it? I just feel like I don't care to put in the time or the effort to it would take an effort to avoid it. Yeah, that's my opinion. And also if if the movie is going to be be ruined by me having watched the trailer, then it wasn't a good movie, yes, but also like watching trailers like good or bad in terms of getting excited and prepared for a movie is like a fun like to me, that's part of the experience. Like I like rewatching the trailers and like before movies, or like I remember, like when Star Wars The Force Awakens was coming out, I would watch like all the trailers like in order, like of when it came out, so I'd see the teaser trailer, trailer, one trailer to trailer. That's like thinking about how manic fourteen year old Star Wars themed part was is hard for me given both of our standoffish relationship with Star Wars as it stands. First movie I saw without parents or like without adults was Star Wars Force Awakens. Yeah. Wow, mine was Alvin and the Chipmunks. Well at least it was something good. Well, I feel like my parents are either just a lot more trusting or a lot less responsible than yours. M Um, All right, I heard on and Or is good on and it's just and Or. No, I don't know, I just mispronounced it the first time. Yeah, I haven't seen it. I've heard it's really good, but it I'm not shocked by being good. Um, it's show run by Tony Gilroy, who wrote the scripts for the original Born trilogy, and those are really good movies. So I heard an interview you with Matt Damon today. I'm sure you know this because you're is it the Avatar? It's the Avatar thing that Matt Damon turned down ten percent of the gross of Avatar? And who is he replaced by? What's the name of that actor, Sam Worthington. Yes, at least it was someone of equal caliber. I mean the movie, I mean kind of their faces kind of look like kind of a lot alike. I mean they're they're white men. Well that's true. I mean, um, I mean, Avatar persists without Matt Damon. But I was thinking it's Avatar, even a bigger deal if Matt Damon isn't it. I mean no, but I would probably like care about it more like I like Matt Damon, and I don't particularly care much for like for or against. Yeah, alright, let's get back on track. Yeah, Well, um recommend rewatch I guess we kind of know the answer and rewatch um...

...and ranking or rating? Sorry, Um, would I recommend? Like sure, but like but like a soft like yeah, you know, um, rewatch. I feel like I owe it that in order to really say that I watched it because I only just found out about how this movie ends. And is it just Tom Cruise sort of given up or no, he's dead? Did you not pick up on that on the train at the end. Yes, he dies, Um, I thought he was. I thought he was just sitting there. Does he die from? Does he die from? This is the craziest thing I've ever seen? Does he die from staying injuries? Yeah? Jimmie Fox shoots him like multiple times, like the lights go out, they face off, and then I remember that, Oh okay, I saw that, um, and I thought because then his cartridge falls out, and I thought they're both out of bullets. No, and then he his cartridge goes falls out and he goes to put another one in, and he like and he's he's wounded in battle. Yeah. I saw that his ear was all blood and then you and then you see him, and then I just saw him slowly sit down, and then I saw Jamie Fox and and the girl who isn't gonna go on a second date with him, um leave the train, and I just thought, oh, Tom Cruise is just like, oh, he won't like he's just given it to him. No, he's dead. I mean he did win, I guess, but he's dead. I mean kind of speaks to how thoroughly I watched this movie. Um, I don't even know what to say to that. Like I was, I was pretty open about the fact that this movie made me fall asleep both times I tried to watch it, and I it's I'll spend the rest of my life trying to figure out if that's my fault or if that's Michael Man's fault. I'll say it's herful personally, Okay. Um, And I'm gonna give this like a six. No, I like our five point five on the basis that, like it's a good I think it's a fine enough movie, but just like not not for me, all right, Um well, um, yeah, I'd recommend this. I've rewatched this. No, I mean I'm wrong in the way that every person who I've been like, like, have you seen collater World to try to like find some sympathizers who were like also like I feel that Collateral is just fine and everyone is like Collaterals fucking awesome. So if I'm alone on this. I'm fine with that. I like blond. I like blonde Tom Cruise. It's the name you've chosen, and we we although I think maybe we should call you Blonde Cruise. Blond Cruise. Um, wait, let me take a screenshot actually just for the Humble podcast listeners. Wait, just sticking longer than I thought. Sorry, you could be Jamie Foxx. All right, I did it? M hmmm, all right. Um, yes, I would recommend this definitely. Um. I have rewatched this many times. I think it gets better the more you rewatch it. Um like an eight. Well know when I watched the other day that I'm fully down with saying it is a better movie than this trend is about to say, the craziest ship you've ever heard? You ready, what surfs up? We've seen that? Fuck? You are you kidding me? Surfs up? Surfs up over Collateral. I cannot describe how. I don't know how the movie end wall, I was just impersonating someone else. I know that's we should quickly tell everybody where they can find us in everything. Um, and then we have to tell the story. I know. I was wondering if we'd if we'd ever circle back? All right, go check us out on Spotify, Apple, podcast, Stitcher, We're everywhere that you can get your podcasts and go follow our Instagram and Twitter to get updates on what when the next episodes come out spoiler it's every Sunday. Um And usually we'll have more informed opinions on the film so the week.

But I was just feeling I was feeling very sleepy this week. And we're lucky to have an episode at all, But but should we should we circle back? And and I feel like what we're best at is talking about things that aren't the movie. So sure, do you want to take on the bulk and always pepper in some details? Sure? So as I'll be the Tom Cruise and you'd be the Jamie Fox, like this is your story behind. I'll bring some conflict. Yeah, Yohomie, you'll bring the yahomies. Um. So, I was throwing a wee party at my apartment. People were going over, coming over, and just before people were coming over, I had seen from I live in an apartment building, and my apartment building is across from another apartment building, and where my old apartment was, you could look into other people's apartments and see them. Um. And is that not the case anymore, can you know, you you can kind of but not not. It used to be like you were facing them and now it's like kind of off to the side. Um. But anyways, we sometimes we like to we liked to people watch, um. And one time, just before the party was happening, uh, friends of the show, Claire and Chloe, Uh, we're looking out and they were like, oh my god, what is going on over there with that guy across from us? And we look and we see that there's this guy and we can't tell whether he's dancing, having sex, like what's going on? But he's like going around with like a like a a towel or something like what is happening? Um? And then he starts sucking up his blinds and we're like, what the fuck? What the fuck? And it's it's a it's either a Friday or Saturday night, and we try to go over to the apartment and but they're closed. And then we ask our apartment like is there anything we can do? And they're like no, and then he stops after a while and we're like all right, Like I guess that's it. But when you say fucking up the blinds, like it's hard to describe, Like imagine them if you like intertwined and tangled a set of blinds so bad, like really bad, like horribly bad, it would be like you would have to strike it with this flailing towel for like hours. But it wasn't the towel. He was with his bare hands, like making a go into itself and stuff like it was. It was bizarre. But seeing this the night of In the next morning, what happened was during the party he stopped, and we're like, all right, we're able to enjoy. We were able to enjoy ourselves. And then the next morning he starts doing it again. Like but now there's like all these people at my apartments that have just slept over, and we're like, oh my god, you are now sober and needs something to be invested in. Yeah, And so I come out of my room after we were done watching The Dark Knight or something, and I see that there's all these people just watching this guy funk up his blinds. And by this point he's like extending his arm out the very narrow opening of the window and flailing it and we're like in a way where it's like he can't do anything that crazy, but like we just see the direction that this is head and we're like, this is bad, this is really bad, and we called. We'd held off on calling the police for a long time because we were like, well, I don't know what are they going to do. But then this guy is starting to take his hands out the window and like it doesn't like it looks like he's trying to do something not good, and we're like, maybe we I guess have to. So I called the police and I'm I explained the situation to them, and then they come to my apartment. But when after I called the police, were like, oh fuck, now police are coming to my apartment and we've just had this party and at this time, um, it's pretty my twenty one birthday. We'll put it that way, um. And so we start a major clean up operation and then a bunch of people we're done cleaning up are like, uh, anyways, by guys, and they start leaving because they're cowards. Um. And then some people are like, we need to go on a bagel run and I'm like, all right, whatever, and then they leave and I'm just waiting and then we hear a knock and the police officers are there. Police officers come in and they're like, oh, making breakfast and I'm really stressed out and scared, and I say no, just on a bagel run. I don't know why I say that to them. Um they're like okay, Um, so I point out the guy in the room and everything, and UM they're like, all right, well we'll go check it out. And the way my apartment is situation situated is such that you can see a perfect angle, a perfect angle of like how they would have to enter into the apartment building. You can see the street and everything. We have a top down bird's eye view of like a god's view in a film. Yes, and we see the police exit your building, try to go into their building and and probably give it like thirty seconds worth of effort. Probably,...

Yeah, they don't. They don't call anybody, they don't do anything. They go outside the building, tug on the door a little bit, see that it's like locked, stand there for like ten seconds, which is obvious given that they would need a key card to get in, and then go back into their car and leave and drive away. And this is what we are paying our police to do. Yeah, Um, I wonder what the fate of that young man. Yes, and I'm his blinds are fixed. Um, as of this semester. All of last semester, they were fucked. But yeah, I'm sure that that wasn't just a maintenance person who is paid to do it. I'm sure that they sorted out their situation and untangled the point. Why well, I don't think they did that, but I do hope that they're better now. But yeah, it seems like they're all right now. Trent is being nuzzled by a friend of the show, George and scaphous. It's frankly suffocating. And when you start getting muzzles, that's when all good episodes come to an end. Yeah, yeah, and I guess next week just join us for part one of our interview with um Where the World's Where the World storyboard artists Dave Lowry. There you go, oh like David like the director night Um. And then that's going to be our second to last episode for the year at the beginning of the end, and we're gonna have our end of year episode after that, and then it's gonna be a whole new year. What an exciting time to have a podcast. Yes, all right, UM, some like truly horrifying things are happening in front of me, involving Jordan and Trent, so horrifying as in some light hugging, and um, guys, stop stop, all right, but.

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